Germany

[walruskkkch]

I don't hink anyone expects or needs Germany to contribute anything to the cause other than ending their obstructionism.

[Dauphin]

If they choose to oppose action, who are we to tell them to stop opposing?

[walruskkkch]

I would assume that would be the side that is in the right. But that certainly is a matter of opinion.

[DinoDoc]

I'm suprised that anyone is taking statements by any official in the German government seriously until after the election. The most amazing thing though is how much they are making this election a US style one.

[Ned]

I understand that Schroeder has gone so far as to deny the US the use of its bases in Germany against Iraq.

Below is a quote from just four years ago. The SPD has done a real reversal on this issue.

"According to the US Pentagon, during the 70 hours of air strikes over four nights, 100 targets were bombed. Some 415 cruise missiles were fired, including 325 Tomahawks from US war ships and 90 from fighter planes--more missiles than were launched in the entire gulf war of 1991. In addition, hundreds of bombs were dropped. The first estimates from the US military reported 28 targets destroyed and another 46 severely damaged. Iraqi officials claimed heavy civilian casualties.

On the second day of the bombardment German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder declared that the military intervention was "the result of the stubborn refusal of Saddam Hussein to collaborate with the UN inspectors in controlling weapons of mass destruction". And further: "Our solidarity with our NATO partners is without question." The chairman of the Social Democratic (SPD) fraction in the Reichstag, Peter Struck, declared the military action to be "regrettable, but necessary".

As to whether the German government would be prepared to give more extensive, active support, Defence Minister Sharping (SPD) declared there had been no requests in that direction and therefore such additional support was not a current issue for the government. However the chairman of the defence committee, Wieczorek (SPD), did not exclude the possibility of "logistical support".

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by walruskkkch
I would assume that would be the side that is in the right. But that certainly is a matter of opinion.

Why assume one is right and the other wrong. I think both sides are right in their own way.

[walruskkkch]

But one side will prevail in the end, they cannot indefinitely coexist.

[Bereta_Eder]

the amazing thing is how much the matter of wether Germany would help or not the US in its war with Iraq is defining their elections.

i repeat schreder was loosing HUGE untill he started his rhetorics abouot not participating in the war

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by paiktis22
i repeat schreder was loosing HUGE untill he started his rhetorics abouot not participating in the war

It was the floods that started the reversal of his dismal fortunes.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by walruskkkch
But one side will prevail in the end, they cannot indefinitely coexist.

Of course they can.

Germany remains out of the conflict as a neutral and the US removes Saddam. Case closed, and both have satisfied their conscience/domestic demands.

[Adalbertus]

Hitler also started the construction of the autobahns in Germany.

Not quite. Hitler greatly promoted their construction, mostly for military reasons. The first "real" Autobahn was the Köln-Bonner Autobahn, constructed 1929-1932 (inaugurated 6. august 1932). Even earlier, there was the AVUS in Berlin with a similar construction, but less for a real transport need but more for driver's training purposes. (IIRC, it means Allgemeine Verkehrs-Übungs-Strecke, public driver's practice lane).

[Stefu]

Bush is probably planning a reply which consists of "You broke the Godwin's Law, so you automatically lose the debate. Nyah nyah!"

[Bereta_Eder]

the funny thing about all this is that when schreder gwill get reelected he wWILL support the US

[Harovan]

The German opposition insists, that Däubler-Gmelin has insulted Bush, she declines to have said the mentioned words. Somebody of them lies, but, oh well. But even if she really said it... in Germany nobody even cares what D.G. says, she's so f'n unimportant, why should the Americans? A worthy response would have been "Bah!".

As for Schröders mentioned "denial to use military bases", he means the German ones, which the US don't need anyway as they have plenty of their own. Also ridiculous is his refusal to send German troops to the Iraq, because 1) Germany doesn't have interventional forces and 2) nobody asked for them and nobody ever will. It's against our constitution, you wanted us teethless, now go and fight your stynkin' wars without us .

[DinoDoc]

Aren't German troops in Afghanistan?