In America Them that got gets, the rest pay taxes

[Lefty Scaevola]

I (including pass thru entities) run around 60% to 70% taxes on my net income (before taxes) which is mostly rents. The largest portion of my taxes are property taxes, mostly for local schools.

[David Floyd]

I have given money to churches before, yes. I feel a moral responsibility to help others less fortunate than myself, but I deny that any legal or social responsibility exists.

[Pandemoniak]

I dont pay taxes, Im too poor.

[Boris Godunov]

Not all property owners were murdered. In fact, not even most of them. But many were dispossessed.

The point is that any society wherein the wealthy are given free reign to accumulate and horde their wealth while the needs of the poor are ignored is destined for violent upheaval. Whether you choose to believe it or not, government assistance is vital to keep many people out of complete destitution in this country. History has shown us that when the disparity between rich and poor is extreme, the rich end up paying a far dearer price than a few taxes.

Consider welfare an investment to help preserve public order, keep crime to low levels and, yes, give a little bit of help to people desperately in need.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I have given money to churches before, yes. I feel a moral responsibility to help others less fortunate than myself, but I deny that any legal or social responsibility exists.

I was rather talking of humane responsibility.
You seem to be the kind of person who is proud to give his old shoes at a charity, these shoes made by five years old vietnamese kids. Am I wrong ?

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I have given money to churches before, yes. I feel a moral responsibility to help others less fortunate than myself, but I deny that any legal or social responsibility exists.

By giving financial support to the church's fund raising for the poor, you actually support an organisation that relies on the fundamental of common social responsibility to take care of the poor. This is not my statement or opinion. Read the Bible.

Touché again!

[David Floyd]

Not all property owners were murdered. In fact, not even most of them. But many were dispossessed.

My point holds.

The point is that any society wherein the wealthy are given free reign to accumulate and horde their wealth while the needs of the poor are ignored is destined for violent upheaval.

True, many people are inherently immoral and greedy, and see nothing wrong with stealing to promote their ends (Hint: I'm not talking about the people "hording" wealth).

Whether you choose to believe it or not, government assistance is vital to keep many people out of complete destitution in this country.

I'm not arguing that no one would be in poverty, I'm saying that I seriously doubt anyone would starve.

History has shown us that when the disparity between rich and poor is extreme, the rich end up paying a far dearer price than a few taxes.

Right, again because the poor seem to end up being a bunch of greedy, immoral, murdering thieves.

Consider welfare an investment to help preserve public order, keep crime to low levels and, yes, give a little bit of help to people desperately in need.

Hmm, that sounds a bit like extortion.

Then you won't object if I show up with a baseball bat, take your computer and TV and wallet, and say you shouldn't ***** about it because that way public order is retained and, after all, I DO need that stuff.

[Roland]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
I (including pass thru entities) run around 60% to 70% taxes on my net income (before taxes) which is mostly rents. The largest portion of my taxes are property taxes, mostly for local schools.

What kind of property tax rates do you have to pay ?

[David Floyd]

You seem to be the kind of person who is proud to give his old shoes at a charity, these shoes made by five years old vietnamese kids. Am I wrong ?

What's wrong with doing that? At least they didn't go in the dumpster, which would be much more convenient for me, right? Oh, and come to think of it, at least those Vietnamese kids are employed rather than on the streets, right?

By giving financial support to the church's fund raising for the poor, you actually support an organisation that relies on the fundamental of common social responsibility to take care of the poor. This is not my statement or opinion. Read the Bible.

Good thing the US is not a society ruled by Biblical law, then

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by David Floyd

Good thing the US is not a society ruled by Biblical law, then.

The point was that you have been supporting an istance that represents a joint social responsebility (= the thing you hate, if you don't understand it ) of the poor. By giving financial support to their work, you have accepted their work and give them your support.

So, yes, touché for the third time.

[David Floyd]

The point was that you have been supporting an istance that represents a joint social responsebility (= the thing you hate, if you don't understand it ) of the poor. By giving financial support to their work, you have accepted their work and give them your support.

I don't see the inconsistency, though. I'm choosing voluntarily to give to a church/charity organization. I may not agree with every position of said organization, but then again that doesn't really matter in this case. Yes, they probably see a social responsibility. I see a moral responsibility, not a social one. I'm fulfilling what I view as my moral responsibility by donated money and/or food. If the organization I'm giving to doesn't use that money or food to help poor people, and instead use it to, say, lobby Congress, the responsibility lies on them for mismanaging money, not on me for giving it.

[Rasbelin]

BTW, the church also has a fundamental morale responsebility to help the poor (read the Bible ), so what I stated applies anyway.

[David Floyd]

the church also has a fundamental morale responsebility to help the poor

Sure. Where have I denied this?

We're talking about two different things, here. I'm opposing the use of force by the government to coerce me into paying for others. I'm against national health care systems that involve me paying for your cancer treatments. I'm against paying for AIDs treatments for people who have AIDs due to their own ignorance, incompetence, and general stupidity.

But I have no problem giving someone five bucks to go buy lunch, or whatever.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Pandemoniak
I dont pay taxes, Im too poor.

It's fun being generous with other people's money, isn't it?

[Rasbelin]

Dino,

it's fun ripping of the money from the poor, isn't it?