In America Them that got gets, the rest pay taxes

[Stefu]

Isn't that a bit like saying "a bit too much logic isn't necessarily a good thing", or "a little hypocricy isn't bad"?

Yes, and?

Too much of anything is not a good thing, and hypocrisy's not nearly as bad as it's often painted as.

[David Floyd]

hypocrisy's not nearly as bad as it's often painted as.

I don't think I agree with that statement

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Well, would YOU have sex if you knew there was a significant chance of getting AIDs? No? Well I guess some of us are just smarter than others...
Of COURSE they should not have unprotected sex with multiple partners in a place where AIDs is rampant - they shouldn't do that even in the US or Europe! It's their own fault they have AIDs, if they went around doing that.

You're well informed about AIDS, thanx to your efficient medias in your country. Im pretty sure though it cannot be compared to Africa's mass medias.

No, take advantage of the numerous options open to you, such as charity, churches, and family. I guarantee you won't starve - granted, it won't be prime rib and premium cut steak, but you won't starve.

So explain me why 13,104,000 died of starving since last 9/11 ? (based on the ratio of 36,000 a day, which is the average number of people dying from starving everyday).

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by David Floyd

Of COURSE they should not have unprotected sex with multiple partners in a place where AIDs is rampant - they shouldn't do that even in the US or Europe! It's their own fault they have AIDs, if they went around doing that.

Well, your ignorance of the global HIV and AIDS problem can very easily be your doom too. If we don't jointly take of the problem by providing HIV and AIDS medication, awareness, education and condoms, the problem will grow into a such scale that you can catch it almost anywhere. Of course you're now going to say that you actually live in selibacy in a cave in the Rocky Mountains, so you can't possible catch the virus infection.

No, take advantage of the numerous options open to you, such as charity, churches, and family. I guarantee you won't starve - granted, it won't be prime rib and premium cut steak, but you won't starve.

This doesn't require my comments as it looks like you have never seen even a poor beggar.

[David Floyd]

Well, your ignorance of the global HIV and AIDS problem can very easily be your doom too. If we don't jointly take of the problem by providing HIV and AIDS medication, awareness, education and condoms, the problem will grow into a such scale that you can catch it almost anywhere. Of course you're now going to say that you actually live in selibacy in a cave in the Rocky Mountains, so you can't possible catch the virus infection.

You can catch most STDs almost anywhere. There are reasonable precautions to take, of course, to make pretty damn sure both you and your partner are safe. Precautions, of course, that you pay for yourself.

But as to living in celibacy, well, so far...

This doesn't require my comments as it looks like you have never seen even a poor beggar.

I see them all the time here in Austin hanging out by liquor stores and by campus. Only thing they lack is their daily ration of cheap Scotch and cigarettes, although come to think of it I do see most of them smoking, so obviously they're spending money on something besides food.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Reasonable people don't need sex ed classes to make reasonable connections regarding how people get sick, wouldn't you say? Are you telling me that people in Africa don't know what AIDs is? Come on, give people a little credit.

No, its something very vague to them. Especially since the Pope annouced people shoulnt use condoms. The concept of sexually transmissible disease is unknow in many parts of Africa. And for those who know the concept, many thinks washing his/ger sexual organs is sufficient.

But let's face it, even if someone has no idea what AIDs is, and they go around having sex, it's STILL their fault and responsibility. It certainly isn't mine.

Why ? Dont you have the power to help about it ? Its like saying : that kid was drawning in the swimming pool, and I stood there drinking my Coca-Cola and reading the Financial Times. It s not my kid, its his fault and responsability.
This is a crime in France which is called "non-assistance to endangered persons".

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Reasonable people don't need sex ed classes to make reasonable connections regarding how people get sick, wouldn't you say? Are you telling me that people in Africa don't know what AIDs is? Come on, give people a little credit.

Reasonable people become reasonable due to an education, which in your littel world would be denied to anybody who didn't have wealthy parents.

Originally posted by David Floyd

But let's face it, even if someone has no idea what AIDs is, and they go around having sex, it's STILL their fault and responsibility. It certainly isn't mine.

Oh yeah, how can it be someones fault if they never new about the dangers.

[David Floyd]

No, its something very vague to them. Especially since the Pope annouced people shoulnt use condoms.

I'm pretty sure the Pope also opposes pre-marital sex with tons of people, wouldn't you say?

The concept of sexually transmissible disease is unknow in many parts of Africa. And for those who know the concept, many thinks washing his/ger sexual organs is sufficient.

I suppose they'll be in for a rude shock when this doesn't work, but these people have basic reasoning capacities, just like we do, and should be able to figure out that if people get STDs after washing their sexual organs, then washing isn't sufficient.

Oh yeah, how can it be someones fault if they never new about the dangers.

They are ultimately responsible for the choices they make in life, even if they are initially ignorant of the consequences.

How can it be my responsibility if I was never involved in the sexual act in the first place?

[Rasbelin]

And now some more fuel into DF's libertarianism generator...

For instance Cuba is a very good example of how state funded health care services can guarantee that there is at least somekind of health care available for the people. Without socialism the Cubans couldn't get any medical services at all. Not to mention the issue of education. All the statistics about the basic services show that the Cubans get enough health care and the percentage of those who can read is high; not to mention that their educational system isn't that bad after all. The system has been indeed hampered by the fall of USSR (their main trading partner) and the sanctions imposed by USA. So this just shows that other means than ultralibertarianism provide better results when it comes to health care.

[David Floyd]

Why ? Dont you have the power to help about it ? Its like saying : that kid was drawning in the swimming pool, and I stood there drinking my Coca-Cola and reading the Financial Times. It s not my kid, its his fault and responsability.
This is a crime in France which is called "non-assistance to endangered persons".

Don't you think those are entirely different things? A small child drowning in a swimming pool and a full grown adult who chooses to have sex with someone who probably has AIDs?

I don't think the law can compel me to help either of them. Morally, I should certainly help the child, but when it comes down to it his parents shouldn't have left him unattended. And yes, morally, I should be willing to help anyone in need. But being willing to voluntarily help is called charity, and charity is something I have no problem with. Being forced to help is something else entirely, and I have a major problem with it.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by David Floyd

How can it be my responsibility if I was never involved in the sexual act in the first place?

It is called non-assistance to endangered persons. You know, its not *such* a big effort to help someone.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by David Floyd
One in which the bottom line is that the wishes of the even a 99% supermajority cannot ever override the property rights or freedom of the 1% minority.

I believe they had a system like that in France, back in 1789 or so. Look what happened to the property owners then.

[David Floyd]

For instance Cuba is a very good example of how state funded health care services can guarantee that there is at least somekind of health care available for the people. Without socialism the Cubans couldn't get any medical services at all. Not to mention the issue of education. All the statistics about the basic services show that the Cubans get enough health care and the percentage of those who can read is high; not to mention that their educational system isn't that bad after all. The system has been indeed hampered by the fall of USSR (their main trading partner) and the sanctions imposed by USA. So this just shows that other means that ultralibertarianism provides better results when it comes to health care.

Who's talking about results? I don't care about results. I care about right and wrong. I'd rather lose a fight, but be in the right, than to be on the wrong side.

Yes, if a government pours billions of dollars into national health care, and is able to maintain efficiency, I have no doubt that the country in question will be relatively healthy. But I'm not concerned with that, I'm concerned with having the right to spend my money as I see fit.

[David Floyd]

You know, its not *such* a big effort to help someone.

It is when someone says I have to.

I believe they had a system like that in France, back in 1789 or so. Look what happened to the property owners then.

They were murdered?
Right, so someone acted in the wrong, wouldn't you say?

But then again, 1789 France was not exactly an example of a free society, was it? And after the Revolution, it certainly wasn't any freer, wouldn't you agree? So I'm not sure I see your point.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by David Floyd

And yes, morally, I should be willing to help anyone in need. But being willing to voluntarily help is called charity, and charity is something I have no problem with. Being forced to help is something else entirely, and I have a major problem with it.

Are you trying to say that you're an ultralibertarian that actually gives funds to charity, while he also denies (all) forms of common responsebility that is promoted by the charity organisation he supports.

Touché!