In America Them that got gets, the rest pay taxes

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by David Floyd


You see that as a good thing. I see that as a method of forcing healthy people to pay for sick people, on the justification that someday they might get sick too. Which sounds alright, until you look at the situation and see that Person A ends up paying out for Person B's cancer, while Person B ends up paying out for Person A's flu.

Come on. A much better system is one in which everyone pays for their own health care. If they want private insurance, fine that's their choice, but if not, it's only right for someone to pay for their own health care.

And that is because of some medical corporations leader who think same as you that 33% of Africa's population as AIDS (not HIV positive, declared AIDS) and cant cure it, since the medicine is expensive.

Or take education. It seems only reasonable that parents should be responsible for their children's education, and if they can't afford it they shouldn't have had so many children. It should not be the responsibility of some 48 year old unmarried childless office worker.

That is even worst, and this is actually totally inhumane. You mean if you dont have the money to feed your children, dont have childrens. Well, so, if you dont have money to feed yourself, kill yourself directly.
Impressive demonstration of the capitalism.

[QUOTE]Subsidized bus fares? Come on! Either drive your own car, or pay your own bus fare. But don't expect someone who drives everywhere to pay for you, just because you can't afford or don't want a car.
[QUOTE]
See Rasbey's answer.

And why is it you think there aren't roads in the US? There are certainly far more highways in the US than in Europe.

Because you are too dumb to build RAILROADS ? (which is cheaper in upkeeping, more ecological, and dont need oil but only electricity) Or because you were almost a hundred years late on the Industrial Revolution ?
One last point : there is more railroads in France and England than in the whole USA. Add Germany and Itlay to that, plus all the rest of Europe, and you'll have an idea of what is an infrastructure.

[David Floyd]

Have you ever heard of a shared responsibility to take care of the poor? Well, I guess you haven't.

Guess not.

Thanks to the Fennoscandinavian model for subsidised health care (of course just in a certain extense), all HIV infected persons can get their treatment, while many, many HIV patients in USA can't get their medication.

Looks like they had sex with the wrong person, eh? In any case, it's their own responsibility regardless.

Your example is abit surreal as it's all paid by The Social Insurance Institution of Finland (every Finnish citizen has a health insurance by SIIF), the municipalities and the Ministry of Social Affairs and Health.

This wouldn't be as bad if there was a way to opt out of this system.

This reminds of USA and road traffic pollution caused by Yanks that have to drive their own cars that consume more than enough gas, instead of using more environmental friendly cars and using public transportation. But of course you can't have any working public transportation if there's no hope for it when the gas prices are so cheap and there's no financial help available. Yet another USA reality.

Well, that, and buses clog the roads and piss me off when I'm trying to drive. Freakin' bus stops, making me late!

There has this far never been any Democratic Trotskyist governments, so how can you know that?

What I said was a troll, I thought I made that clear. I was being a smartass.

Personally, I think communism and any related systems are ****, but that's beside the point.

Your comment just confirms that churches, charity, family =/~ US social insurance system.

Why exactly do you think this would be a bad thing?

[TheStinger]

Would you be able to opt out of the benefits you would receive from living in a well educated healthy society.

[David Floyd]

And that is because of some medical corporations leader who think same as you that 33% of Africa's population as AIDS (not HIV positive, declared AIDS) and cant cure it, since the medicine is expensive.

How is Africans having too much unprotected sex my problem? Because ultimately, that's the root cause of AIDs, wouldn't you say? Someone not being responsible, right?

You mean if you dont have the money to feed your children, dont have childrens.

This seems like the logical and compassionate solution to me.

Well, so, if you dont have money to feed yourself, kill yourself directly.

How is not having children the same as suicide?

Because you are too dumb to build RAILROADS ? (which is cheaper in upkeeping, more ecological, and dont need oil but only electricity) Or because you were almost a hundred years late on the Industrial Revolution ?
One last point : there is more railroads in France and England than in the whole USA. Add Germany and Itlay to that, plus all the rest of Europe, and you'll have an idea of what is an infrastructure.

Railroads? But those get robbed by the bad guys in Westerns! I'm not riding one of them!

[Stefu]

It's a bit useless arguing about system of government with a libertarian, since the whole enchilada is not only consistent, but pretty much the only option to take if you subscribe to their particular "maximum liberty" worldview. It's not very utilitarian, of course, so I'm staying far away from it all, but at least it proves that too much consistency isn't necessarily a good thing.

[David Floyd]

Would you be able to opt out of the benefits you would receive from living in a well educated healthy society.

I know what you're saying, but just because someone else chooses to pay into a system that gets them education and health insurance doesn't mean you should be punished for seeking a private route. Even if those people end up "better off" than you do, I still see no reason why you should have to pay for the "privilege" of being around healthy educated people.

[David Floyd]

but at least it proves that too much consistency isn't necessarily a good thing.

Isn't that a bit like saying "a bit too much logic isn't necessarily a good thing", or "a little hypocricy isn't bad"?

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by David Floyd


I know what you're saying, but just because someone else chooses to pay into a system that gets them education and health insurance doesn't mean you should be punished for seeking a private route. Even if those people end up "better off" than you do, I still see no reason why you should have to pay for the "privilege" of being around healthy educated people.

Amybe on your death your children or family could get a rebate to represent all teh services you did not use

[David Floyd]

Amybe on your death your children or family could get a rebate to represent all teh services you did not use

Eh? If you opt out of a social insurance system, why should your family receive rebates for services you never used or paid for?

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by David Floyd


How is Africans having too much unprotected sex my problem? Because ultimately, that's the root cause of AIDs, wouldn't you say? Someone not being responsible, right?

How much cost a condom in USA ? I dunno.
How much cost a condom in France ? Its free, due to healthcare.
How much cost a condom in Africa ? In most countries, one month of wage. So, according to your logical and compassionate solution, they shouldnt have sex neither ?

This seems like the logical and compassionate solution to me.
How is not having children the same as suicide?

Your missing the logical articulation : i said : You mean if you dont have the money to feed your children, dont have childrens. Well, so, if you dont have money to feed yourself, kill yourself directly.
I could have said : let you starve directly, which is also a sort of suicide.
A not suicidal person like me would prefer to rob a train.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Eh? If you opt out of a social insurance system, why should your family receive rebates for services you never used or paid for?

It was a joke, i meant if you were compelled tp pay in to the system during your lifetime you could get the rebate at the end

[David Floyd]

How much cost a condom in Africa ? In most countries, one month of wage. So, according to your logical and compassionate solution, they shouldnt have sex neither ?

Well, would YOU have sex if you knew there was a significant chance of getting AIDs? No? Well I guess some of us are just smarter than others...
Of COURSE they should not have unprotected sex with multiple partners in a place where AIDs is rampant - they shouldn't do that even in the US or Europe! It's their own fault they have AIDs, if they went around doing that.

Well, so, if you dont have money to feed yourself, kill yourself directly.
I could have said : let you starve directly, which is also a sort of suicide.

No, take advantage of the numerous options open to you, such as charity, churches, and family. I guarantee you won't starve - granted, it won't be prime rib and premium cut steak, but you won't starve.

[Rasbelin]

Pande,

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Well, would YOU have sex if you knew there was a significant chance of getting AIDs? No? Well I guess some of us are just smarter than others...
Of COURSE they should not have unprotected sex with multiple partners in a place where AIDs is rampant - they shouldn't do that even in the US or Europe! It's their own fault they have AIDs, if they went around doing that.

well the government might have to spend money to tell people about the dangers of AIDS, therby spending money on health care

[David Floyd]

well the government might have to spend money to tell people about the dangers of AIDS, therby spending money on health care

Reasonable people don't need sex ed classes to make reasonable connections regarding how people get sick, wouldn't you say? Are you telling me that people in Africa don't know what AIDs is? Come on, give people a little credit.

But let's face it, even if someone has no idea what AIDs is, and they go around having sex, it's STILL their fault and responsibility. It certainly isn't mine.