Any Christians out there?

[SlowwHand]

I agree with you almost 100%, Boris.
Except the part about God's depiction.
Some branches of Christianity do indeed brand Him as a vengeful being, while others, such as mine, teach that He is forgiving.

BTW, Loinburger, you say it depends on whether you believe 1 of 2 line's of thought, but you don't elaborate on what you personally think.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by loinburger


I could have sworn that it was a Christian that started this thread, not an atheist...

Run a search for old religious troll threads, you'll find that almost all of them were started by Christians. My favorite was "The Evangelical Atheist," in which the thread starter basically started a religious troll thread in which he complained that atheists start too many religious troll threads or something. Good times.

I did not think this was meant as a troll thread -- he was merely asking who was Christian and who was atheist?

It IS possible to answer the question, and have a discussion between Christians and atheists without one side trolling the other.

But then when Asher made his troll about how everyone picks what they believe in, it seemed he was making a jibe at the diversity of religions in this world.

There never was a religious discussion thread where there was not at least one troll thread from an atheist.
And Christian Apolytoners who troll atheists, need to stop that too.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
I agree with you almost 100%, Boris.
Except the part about God's depiction.
Some branches of Christianity do indeed brand Him as a vengeful being, while others, such as mine, teach that He is forgiving.

BTW, Loinburger, you say it depends on whether you believe 1 of 2 line's of thought, but you don't elaborate on what you personally think.

There seems to be a difference, from what I see, between what the Bible depicts and what Christian sects choose to see and how choose to interpret God's actions and intentions.

While it is undoubtedly a personal opinion, the literal depiction of God in the Bible shows a vain, evil being bent on slaughtering his creations, toying with their minds and emotions and acting in ways that most people would find petty and unjust. I don't see how you can interpret Job as being the act of an all-knowing and loving God. Nor the Flood, perhaps the greatest atrocity ever attributed to a deity, and for something that was his own fault, no less. And then there is that whole condemning folks to Hell not based on their merits as good people but by whether or not they scrape and kneel to the right image of God in the right way.

I hear the arguments that I look at these things from a modern perspective, so don't understand the image of God, so I naturally don't see the loving, benevolent side. I just turn that back on the people who say that by pointing out they are looking at God with the same misunderstanding, and that back in the old days there was not the notion God was loving and benevolent. Gods were made to be feared, not to love and be loved.

I am agnostic, and don't believe any depiction of God humans have come up with is accurate. We're taking stabs in the dark at something we really don't have the power to comprehend, if God exists at all. Therefore I totally believe in free will. I also don't believe the description of Jesus's life and crucifixion in the Bible is remotely accurate, and have serious doubts whether he or Judas even existed.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by CyberShy


you're still sticking to the atheist point of view btw?

No.

Agnostic.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
BTW, Loinburger, you say it depends on whether you believe 1 of 2 line's of thought, but you don't elaborate on what you personally think.

I believe in free will, and so if Judas betrayed Jesus for the reasons that the Bible attributes to him (i.e. betrayal of a friend for cash money) then he got what he had coming to him.

[ckweb]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


You can't look at Judas, IMO, and believe he had free will. His betrayal of Jesus was part of the deal in order to fulfill Jesus's destiny, etc. It sucks to be damned for something you have no control over. That's why I find Calvinists particularly loopy.

Judas was a poor schmuck who was probably doing what he felt was right and got screwed for it (assuming the Biblical account is true, which I do not assume anyway).

Another example of why I find the God depicted in the Bible to be pretty rotten. It's actually a fairly insulting description of a supposedly omnipotent, benevolent being.

And notice how Kcck vanished after the firs post... DL indeed.

You can't just take one Calvinistic doctrine and detach it from the others. Predestination is not as "loopy" as it sounds in the context of Calvin's doctrines on humanity and God. And, Calvin would certainly not say you are "damned for something you have no control over."

[ckweb]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
While it is undoubtedly a personal opinion, the literal depiction of God in the Bible shows a vain, evil being bent on slaughtering his creations, toying with their minds and emotions and acting in ways that most people would find petty and unjust. I don't see how you can interpret Job as being the act of an all-knowing and loving God. Nor the Flood, perhaps the greatest atrocity ever attributed to a deity, and for something that was his own fault, no less. And then there is that whole condemning folks to Hell not based on their merits as good people but by whether or not they scrape and kneel to the right image of God in the right way.

Your personal opinion, as it were, is based on picking and choosing stories and narratives. I agree the Bible at times presents a picture of a capricious and vengeful god. It also presents the picture of a god who sides with the oppressed, the downtrodden, the widow, and the orphan; a god who does great miracles and wonders to deliver his people, revive the weak, sick, and dead, and comfort the hopeless. If one overwhelms or outweighs the other in your mind, so be it. But shouldn't you be fair and acknowledge that the picture of God in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament is more than you let on in this post?

[ckweb]

Originally posted by Fez


No I am not a fanatic... but I decided that newsmax religious debates were enough for me and convinced me devout Christians are truely not people to talk to. I post at newsmax and the people there are so stupidly blind...

Hope you enjoy navel-gazing . . .

[Guynemer]

Does this count as a club thread?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Ming
Let's not make this personal foks...

Agreed, the only "Personal" one should make is to have a "Personal" relationship with He Whom Died for our Sins, that being the person of Jesus Christ, God in Flesh Form.

Thanks Ming for reminding us what we should all know, be nice and be a witness, not attack. I pesonally have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Thats a persoanl choice we all have to make in order to recieve eternal life in Heaven.

Of course..there is always the "Smoking" section of eternity....

[Guynemer]

Boy, Troll, you sure hit the nail on the head in explaining what Ming meant when he said, "Let's not make this personal, folks..."

Ming, if I may be so presumptuous as to quote you:

[Ethelred]

Good ol' Troll. If you aren't for his god you will burn forever. But its not personal. After all its doesn't have a thing to do with a person's behaviour just belief. So Hitler goes to Heaven and a 3 year old child in New Guinee goes to Hell because it never even heard of a Christian.

[leftover_crack]

<-----catholic (i dont go to church as much as I should)

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Ethelred
Good ol' Troll. If you aren't for his god you will burn forever. But its not personal. After all its doesn't have a thing to do with a person's behaviour just belief. So Hitler goes to Heaven and a 3 year old child in New Guinee goes to Hell because it never even heard of a Christian.

See Ethelred, I am not attacking you, I am simply stating what the Bible says, and as for Hitler, I dont know where he is, not me to judge, and as for the 3 year old, if you are before the age of understanding than you go to heaven. I am soory you seem to misunderstand me, but I never spoke of god, I spoke of G O D

[leftover_crack]

troll has got to be a REAL troll here to make a mockery of christians. If your real I will say; Dont be so darn persistant bro. Some people just dont want or need it.