Rugby - Who? Me, Sir? Offside?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Bearcat
Apparently Romania has earned itself a berth in the 2003 Rugby World Cup, by defeating Spain 67-6. Apparently they'll be pooled with Australia, Ireland, Argentina, and either Namibia or Tunisia. What do you think the Oaks chances are at RWC 2003 in a pool like that?

I would love to see Romania arise as one of the top two teams from that pool, but realistically their chances are very slim. Even for them to beat Argentina would be a massive feat, let alone Ireland.

Where are you from Bearcat? Romania? (I see your flag is German ) Romania has a proud rugby history pre-1989. We hope you plan on posting here regularly. Welcome!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Four or Five ‘fraudulent’ English tries next month should do that.

*Madam Havak tucks her crystal ball under her cloak and shuffles off into the night*

And without fear or favour – he had the barny with Laurie Mains last season didn’t he?

It's ongoing from the Wallaby-AB days. Based on huge mutual respect.

Stephen Jones latest column on PR is worth a read – it will be enormously interesting to Tamerlin and LdiCesare I think. It’s also truly remarkable in that, at one point, he almost says something nice about Leicester.

He actually manages to avoid mangling the language. It's a good column for a change because he's not motivated by any particular bias. I will be interested to see what out amis think about it.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
I will be interested to see what out amis think
about it.

It's true the french clubs are struggling with the Heineken Cup since a few years. Some of our clubs have delivered some appalling performances and Stephen Jones is citing the guilty parties among which I'am sorry to count the Stade Toulousain.

To be honest about the Stade Toulousain vs. Munster game (it was in Bordeaux and I was in the Stadium) the author should have recalled the ridiculous attitude of Munster's staff. Every time (and really every time) the referee whistled whatever the reason for, Munster's healers invaded the field to bring water or anything else to the players thus interrupting the flow of the game. After every scrum one or two Munster's forwards (at least )were staying on the ground and healers once again rushed on the field without waiting for the referee to call them in order to interrupt the game a few minutes especially when the Stade was playing within their 22. I remember this game as one of the most irritating I have ever seen. Because the Stade Toulousain has been unable to play at a good level, the Munster desserved to win this game but the quality of the game would have been dramatically improved without the ridiculous behavior of Munster's staff and the pitiful performance of the referee which proved himself unable to give even a semblance of order to this game. As you can see, I'am still a bit angry when I remember this game because of the poor Stade Toulousain's performance and because the game of Rugby is depreciated each time a team is relying on outside elements to win a game and is allowed to do so because of an unskilled referee.

I know I deserve at least a yellow card for this rant but I feel better now.

Before I leave for the sin bin, I must admit Stephen Jones analysis is rather good, the french clubs have less money than their britannic counterparts and our competition is really different. Moreover I think we still have to create a competition that will raise the level of play (the bonus point for a third try has been refused by the majority of the professional clubs for example) when the british isles have already done it since a few years. Perhaps is the main difference here, perhaps...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I know I deserve at least a yellow card for this rant but I feel better now.

No yellow card, Tamerlin. In fact, the opposite. You are the first recipient of this thread's Golden Penalty Try, awarded for an outstanding piece of die-hard patriotic posting. It was a lovely piece of writing. I almost felt as though I was there at the ground with you.

the french clubs have less money than their britannic counterparts and our competition is really different.

Why is that? Less sponsorship? Less support from the French Union?

[finbar]

One year and counting down!

We are exactly one year away from the RWC!

Interesting article by our best rugby journo in this morning's Sydney Morning Herald. It's very, very long but worth reading. I suspect Greg Growden's reference to England's "Dad's Army" is based on his inside info that Havak will be at tight-head in the English team.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
You are the first recipient of this thread's Golden Penalty Try, awarded for an outstanding piece of die-hard patriotic posting.

I would like to thank my mother without whom I wouldn't be there to hold this price.

I almost felt as though I was there at the ground with you.

I would have preferred to share a great moment of rugby instead of a most frustrating one but I guess we have all lived a game like that.

Why is that? Less sponsorship? Less support from the French Union?

The French Union is managing the national team, the championship and the clubs are mainly managed by the League which is managing the TV rights redistributed to the clubs.

In France, clubs are not owned by companies or multi-millionaires and competitions are not sponsored by a TV network sending images all around the world. The Stade Toulousain, for example, is a company playing in a Stadium owned by an association called "Les amis du Stade" which was created by rich "Toulousains" at the beginning of the previous century to build a stadium for the club. Today, the clubs are financed by private investors (Peugeot and others for the Stade Toulousain, the NRJ radio network for the Stade Français, Fabres Laboratories for the Castres Olympique...), Local Public Administration (the town of Toulouse, the Regional and District Counsels) though the part coming from them tends to diminish, the ticket sales (marginal) and the TV rights which are becoming more and more important.

The main problem for a french television network is that the vast majority of the Rugby nations are english speaking which is becoming a great barrier when you want to promote our championship to english speaking consumers. The vast majority of french speaking countries (including to some extent France) are playing S***** and are not interested in Rugby broadcastings. TV rights are generated by smaller TV network adapted to a french speaking audience, smaller network means fewer credits...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I would like to thank my mother without whom I wouldn't be there to hold this price.

The main problem for a french television network is that the vast majority of the Rugby nations are english speaking which is becoming a great barrier when you want to promote our championship to english speaking consumers. The vast majority of french speaking countries (including to some extent France) are playing S***** and are not interested in Rugby broadcastings. TV rights are generated by smaller TV network adapted to a french speaking audience, smaller network means fewer credits...

That's interesting. I hadn't considered the language problem, particularly related to the popularity of S*****. As you say, the smaller the network, the less return.

We're lucky in this country with S*****. It's played by a whole lot of people, which isn't surprising given the number of foreign-born people here. (There's a myth going around that it's the most played sport in the country but I think women's netball holds that honour) Anyway, luckily, the Australian S***** Union (or whatever they're called) are completely and utterly incompetent. They're currently close to insolvent. They recently played a tournament in New Zealand which was a qualifier for another very rich tournament. The Union was so bankrupt that none of the players were paid beyond expenses. One foreign-based player had to pay his own way back to play. Naturally, they lost.

Thus, while S***** here would have more participants than rugby, it has none of the profile that generates income.

[Havak]

It's ongoing from the Wallaby-AB days. Based on huge mutual respect.

Where was the smiley indicating sarcasm?

Every time (and really every time) the referee whistled whatever the reason for, Munster's healers invaded the field to bring water or anything else to the players thus interrupting the flow of the game

Tamerlin – you’ve hit an interesting point as they had an Australian coach. Watch Australia and you will see this every single time – every breakdown = faked injury and muppets on the field. Bath under Foley have started doing it and get mercilessly barracked for it (and rightly so). You see it is used for a number of things – breaking the opponent’s rhythm and illegal in game coaching instructions being perhaps the two most important things. The acid test is that all these bodies falling around dying are able to take heavy contact in the very next play. It’s adequate proof these ‘injuries’ are being faked for anyone who has played in the pack. If you are sufficiently hurt you need to stay on your back for two minutes you will die if you try to scrum again the minute you get up – trust me.

The other amusing thing is the way the players rotate faking duty so the ref doesn’t insist one player leave the field after several. Keep you eyes on the autumn games – Jones is a big an exponent of this as McQueen was. I doubt Finbar even sees it as a problem to be honest? If I were feeling polite I would call it being utterly Professional. If I weren’t feeling polite I would call it cheating. Either way it’s an identifiably Australian trait.

I have to say I was amused by the idea of the referee allowing trainers onto the field. The SH killed this off years ago. Any ref who tried to enforce this in the tri-nations now would receive an absolute vitriolic complaint from the Unions. The referee policing the field of play – what a shocking idea! What do you think this is – Rugby Union or something (sarcasm).

I think Jones idea of layered reward for progress in Europe might help, and maybe if qualification for the next year was based on European performance not the French League. We need strong French showings in the European cup to stop it becoming a British Isles cup so we do need to sort this out.

I almost felt as though I was there at the ground with you

And I personally will be very interested if you try to defend my allegation as I think it’s one of the hardest things to deny about the Wallabies.

Why is that? Less sponsorship? Less support from the French Union?

I can help here in addition to tamerlin’s explanation. It’s both. Our club ‘wealth’ is artificial, it’s based on distribution of sponsorship, TV money by the RFU and ‘sugar daddies’ (some £2 million a year per premiership club from the RFU) and that is now mainly based on a tasty autumn fixture list. It’s a house of cards in some ways so it’s very important you keep losing to us okay guys? Without this subsidy only my club of the top 12 would be (just) solvent.

Could I also remind everyone that my club is still a members club – fully owned by us. Off the top of my head we are the only top flight club still in that position – certainly I know Sale, Bristol, Gloucester, Saracens, Northampton and Newcastle have sugar daddy ‘owners’ and I’m fairly certain the rest do too.

Dad’s army? That’s dads army is perhaps the most effective pack in the world, the hooker is 24 and the tighthead 26. The non-Jonno second rows 26 and 30, one of the flankers 23. And this is your best journo?

Okay okay I’ve got the devil in me this morning. I know
he means the likes of Leonard (33), Rowntree (31) and Backy (34). Write Backy off at you peril however.

And if they select me? God help us.

There are red cards hovering if s***** gets mentioned again gentlemen.

[Havak]

Munster still have a Aussie coach by the way - albeit a different one to the one who ruined Tamerlin's afternoon those few years back.

They vist Gloucester on Saturday afternoon which adds a nice twist, what with them Finbars adopted team and all.

That fixture is a cracker- but Gloucester will win and win fairly easily in the end I think.

[Devil of Truth]

It seems the South African Rugby players just cannot get enough of the dazzling British weather. Four South African provincial sides, Western Province, Blue Bulls, Free State and Eastern Province have accepted an invitation to participate with four leading Welsh clubs, Cardiff, Bridgend, Pontypridd and Llanelli, in the SA-Wales Challenge Cup competition in Wales in November this year.

What’s this?

An SA invasion in November!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I know I deserve at least a yellow card for this rant but I feel better now.

No, that was a great post Tamerlin.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Devil of Truth
It seems the South African Rugby players just cannot get enough of the dazzling British weather. Four South African provincial sides, Western Province, Blue Bulls, Free State and Eastern Province have accepted an invitation to participate with four leading Welsh clubs, Cardiff, Bridgend, Pontypridd and Llanelli, in the SA-Wales Challenge Cup competition in Wales in November this year.

What’s this?

An SA invasion in November!

This makes it a SH invasion! With New Zealand and Australia touring also at this time we have a lot to look forward to in November.

[Havak]

Yes but the Boks are playing the serious game - against England.

All those sides are tough opponents but don't expect good running rugby. It will be attritional forward play. Ideally suited to Wales and South Africa perhaps?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Where was the smiley indicating sarcasm?

It's the truth.

If I were feeling polite I would call it being utterly Professional. If I weren’t feeling polite I would call it cheating. Either way it’s an identifiably Australian trait.

It has been around for years and everyone has a crack at it. And refs are now - in cases where they think it's a ruse - simply getting on with the game, leaving it up to the player to decide how real the injury is.

[Havak]

I though Bob hated Laurie personally?

And refs are now - in cases where they think it's a ruse - simply getting on with the game

Not in my observation. If it happens when a set piece has been blown for what can the ref do? Watch your boys next month just for the set pieces and see how often props are hurt when you are defending scrums, and the way your locks suffer similarly when defending line out.

Not called the most Professional team in the world for no reason.

By the way Tigers have moved to deny the Kronfeld rumour with this....

"There has been plenty of speculation about Josh leaving but that's all it is, speculation," said Richards.
"I'm happy with him and I want him to stay.
"I expect Josh to be with us until the end of his contract, which expires next summer,"

So who knows?

Also - Mick Galway, because of injury, has come out of retirement to play for Munster at Kingsholm on Saturday. A good lad is Mick.