Rugby - Who? Me, Sir? Offside?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Can you truly imagine my countrymen ever being fully homogenised into Europeans?

Fortunately (or unfortunately, which depends on your opinion), I think economical considerations will force Great Britain to join the Euro zone and enforce a deeper european cooperation policy.

On the other hand, I sincerely believe (and hope) GB and France will keep their respective British and French spirits and that the European Community officials won't be able to do anything against that.

[Caligastia]

I would be sorry to see the super 12 go, but if it enabled the creation of a more international annual tournament it would be worth it. The hemispheres really are too polarized, I mean we have two annual competitions between the same three nations down here.

If there is to be widespread change in the current structure of rugby competitions (i.e. scrapping of the super12, six and tri nations), this is what I would like to see emerge.

- A new 6 nations with NZ, SA, Oz, England, France and Argentina. In this competition we would have the top five teams in the world, with a developing rugby nation thrown in there. Argentina would benefit immensely from playing against the "big five" on a regular basis, and the benefits would also no doubt be passed on to Chile.

- A new 6 nations type of european competition with Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Italy, Georgia and Romania. As Ireland, Wales, and Scotland are a significant step down from England and France, but a significant step up from Italy, Georgia and Romania, the latter three countries would greatly benefit from regular play against the former. Perhaps even Russia could be brought in at some stage. Ireland, Wales and Scotland could still have the occasional test series against France and England.


This is all open to discussion of course. What do you guys think?

[Devil of Truth]

I think changing the Super 12 would be a bad idea. The Super 12 has allowed regional talent to perform at international level, thus lifting the standard of the entire southern hemisphere.

However, I agree that rugby should grow instead of becoming an old boys’ club, so I think it would be great if a “development” or “invitational” side could participate in the competition.

There is a proposal on the cards to create an annual triangular between SA, Oz and England to be played every November. Should make interesting viewing.

[Caligastia]

Welcome! We have only had one other South African posting here in the past and he hasnt been here for a while. Hopefully now we will have someone representing SA posting here regularly now.

Originally posted by Devil of Truth
I think changing the Super 12 would be a bad idea. The Super 12 has allowed regional talent to perform at international level, thus lifting the standard of the entire southern hemisphere.

I agree, but in order to avoid tiring out the top players maybe it should be up to each country to develop their talent.

There is a proposal on the cards to create an annual triangular between SA, Oz and England to be played every November. Should make interesting viewing.

If you look back at some of the other posts on this page you will see we have discussed this a little bit already. We all generally agree that such a competition is ridiculous to exclude NZ and France.

[Havak]

It's worth checking this out - some very very upset people letting both O'Neil and also the English (in general apparently) have it with both barrels.

For all your countrymen being rude about us in this link Cal I really hope we turn you over in November now.

Do not exclude the ABs!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
It's worth checking this out - some very very upset people letting both O'Neil and also the English (in general apparently) have it with both barrels.

For all your countrymen being rude about us in this link Cal I really hope we turn you over in November now.

Do not exclude the ABs!

Ha ha, yeah I was just reading that.

So what did you think of my competition ideas?

[Devil of Truth]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Welcome! We have only had one other South African posting here in the past and he hasnt been here for a while. Hopefully now we will have someone representing SA posting here regularly now.

I’ve noticed that South Africans are a little thin on the ground ‘round here . Will do my best to waive the flag.

I agree that most players are hopelessly overplayed. (That being one of the reasons cited for dropping the North vs. South match.) But you just cannot beat Brumbies vs. Highlanders vs. Stormers etc. for some serious development.

Originally posted by Caligastia
If you look back at some of the other posts on this page you will see we have discussed this a little bit already. We all generally agree that such a competition is ridiculous to exclude NZ and France.

Oops. Not my day . Noticed the mentions after my post. Agree on the NZ & France issue.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Devil of Truth


I’ve noticed that South Africans are a little thin on the ground ‘round here . Will do my best to waive the flag.

Excellent.

I agree that most players are hopelessly overplayed. (That being one of the reasons cited for dropping the North vs. South match.) But you just cannot beat Brumbies vs. Highlanders vs. Stormers etc. for some serious development.

Thats true, and I do really enjoy the super 12. Perhaps if we had an international competition going on at the same time as the super 12 it would give more of the up-and-coming players a chance to show their stuff as the best players would be involved in the international comp. Not only that, but it would make things easier on the top players because they wouldnt be exhausted by playing in the Super 12 as well as international matches.

Oops. Not my day

No worries

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Devil of Truth
Agree on the NZ & France issue.

Well, we are starting on a good ground...

Welcome, Devil of Truth! As Caligastia told you before, South Africa is not represented here since a few months. Keep the flame !

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
There is a twisted logic yes – “fewer matches of higher quality” could be read as “more matches of lower quality”. This of course is what you implied.

I agree in a qualified way. I like it to be sports where the clash is at least competitive. So I will not be glued to the ashes it is safe to say.

All the better, obviously, if it's competitive. It will be interesting to see what effect, if any, Rodney Marsh and his academy have on your cricket standards. He seems to have an opinion of the two new young quicks who are coming here. I only saw them briefly in the recent series over there and they looked handy for their age. At least our pitches here will help them if they've got strong backs and the commitment.

Rowing, of all things, seems to be an area where we can compete. Shame it’s so boring then really.

Yes, it must be disspiriting to lead the world in so many crashingly boring sports like rowing and that bizarre Winter Olympics event where they slide something down an ice lane and chase it with brooms.

Excellent point. I particularly like your remark on the way it can inform life today, too few people understand that very thing.

Not to mention those who are too arrogant or stupid (or both) to learn from past mistakes.

What months would that be? Thinking about it our season runs Autumn-Spring already (Aug-May)

The weather would be suitable here from March onwards, through until late September, perhaps into October.

There are extended parallels though. They used to be better than us, then we drew level, then we left them in our dust. All you need to do is do the latter to the ABs and the cases will match entirely.

It's on the cards.

Can you truly imagine my countrymen ever being fully homogenised into Europeans?

Absolutely not. Nor, I hope, will it happen elsewhere in Europe. In fact, given the local pride, it probably won't. But the blight on our civilisation that is the money men, to whom culture and identity is no priority at all, will do their damndest.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
On the other hand, I sincerely believe (and hope) GB and France will keep their respective British and French spirits and that the European Community officials won't be able to do anything against that.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
If there is to be widespread change in the current structure of rugby competitions (i.e. scrapping of the super12, six and tri nations), this is what I would like to see emerge.

I think there's great merit in the suggestions. With these provisos:

1. I would keep the S12 but in a different, probably abbreviated format (for all the reasons I've paraded endlessly before, and I think South Africa should agree on the basis that the S12 has been a huge factor in their recent revival) and scrap the Tri-Nations in favour of your 6 Nations concept.

2. I think it's unlikely to happen for the reason I suggested in an earlier post. The degree of cooperation required between so many Unions lands it in the impossible basket. I suspect its only chance of success will hang on the potential for fiscal reward.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
It's worth checking this out - some very very upset people letting both O'Neil and also the English (in general apparently) have it with both barrels.

At least it proves that angry Kiwis are slightly more literate than angry Australians but then angry illiterates are vastly more literate than most Australians anyway.

For all your countrymen being rude about us in this link Cal I really hope we turn you over in November now.

And about time. I was wearying of your hopes that the ABs would cream England in November.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Devil of Truth
I’ve noticed that South Africans are a little thin on the ground ‘round here . Will do my best to waive the flag.

Welcome, DoT!

You should be aware of the house rules:

1. You will be shown a Yellow Card if any post displays wit.

2. You will be shown a Red Card if any post displays intelligence.

3. You will be sentenced to watch a Rugby League match if any post displays both wit and intelligence.



Apart from that, just don't take any notice of Havak. He knows nothing about rugby. He's from a soccer heritage. Just humour him as we do.

[Devil of Truth]

Thanks everybody for the warm reception. Glad I can lend a hand.

Now, about those house rules… please don’t make me watch League… please… I’ll do anything… I’ll even cheer for Australia… no… wait a minute… rather make me watch League.

Originally posted by finbar

1. ...South Africa should agree on the basis that the S12 has been a huge factor in their recent revival)

Revival? What revival? (Our strategy has been to lull everybody into a false sense of security. Apparently it’s worked.)

The S12 has definitely helped our game – no doubt. But our national team’s reversal of fortune has more to do with increased home-side support and confidence (not to mention marketing campaigns); and a coach that has actually played the game before.

Originally posted by finbar

1. I would keep the S12 but in a different, probably abbreviated format ... and scrap the Tri-Nations in favour of your 6 Nations concept.

That’s what I’m saying! You need to keep the S12, but expand the Tri-nations. Definitely include France and England – and maybe leave the final berth open on invitation. Add something different to the match every year.