This Is the Kind of Crap that Pisses Me Off

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I contend if it happened more then a hundred years ago then "returning" the land to its previous owners is just as fraudulent as the original comfiscation.

What a convenient cut-off date. I suppose that 50 years ago your cut-off date would have been 50 years.

[Clear Skies]

It's very very sad. Zimbabwe used to be the breadbasket of Africa - now it can't even feed itself.

[Arrian]

The concept of land redistribution is fine, so long as the government follows a staged program where the land is paid for and the people who receive it are actually farmers. IIRC, Britain ponied up some money for exactly such a program, but it was never pushed by Mugabe or Zanu-PF... until the MDC starting winning seats in elections. All of a sudden the land issue becomes important. *things that make you go hmmm*

Like many have said, this is all about Mugabe staying in power. He is clearly willing to starve his people to do so. That makes him a monster.

I do think that ONE of the reasons for the media coverage is that the farmers are white. There are two parts to that: 1) "you can't do that to WHITE people!" and 2) How odd... white people being screwed over by blacks. Isn't it usually the other way 'round? Novelty value.

I do feel bad for the farmers, because they weren't the colonizers who stole the land in the first place. Many are descendants, but some AFAIK came to Zimbabwe after independence. I feel just as bad for the farm workers (blacks, almost 100%) who are being beaten and terrorized while trying to do their jobs.

By the way, didn't Kenya do a massive redistribution of land and collapse from a food exporter to a subsistence society?

-Arrian

[Flubber]

A new little twist which I read in the Calgary Herald but was not reproduced in their online version

Apparently their country is in debt to Libya for a lot of oil and Libya provides something like 80% of their supply. Khaddaffi has supposedly given them a cheaper price on oil in return for an interest in a bunch of Zimbabwe enterprises including their national bank. " Sources" say that thousands of these confiscated acres of farmland will actually go to Khaddaffi as payment for oil.


The herald also ran stories on how government supporters get feed while the opposition starves. Ais agencies have had to set up their own storage and distribution systems as the government system gives nothing to opposition regions

[KrazyHorse]

I do think that ONE of the reasons for the media coverage is that the farmers are white. There are two parts to that: 1) "you can't do that to WHITE people!" and 2) How odd... white people being screwed over by blacks. Isn't it usually the other way 'round? Novelty value

Yup.

Without the colour interest, the story would have sunk (wrongly) to the back pages ages ago...

Mugabe's a ****ing twit, and is running the country into the ground. We can always hope that some enterprising young man will find a way to place a bullet in his brain. Despite all this, land redistribution is quite justified in the case of large owners (most of whom owe their wealth directly to the colonialist system). Small owners, no matter what their race, shouldn't be touched.

[Flubber]

I saw another story that some Zimbabwe court has ruled that the government cannot confiscate a certain farmer's land as it is mortgaged and there was not proper notice by the government to the bank involved. The story went on to say that this ruling could delay the expropriation considerably since the vast majority of farms are mortgaged. Apparently the government had yet to take any action to address the ruling

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The action I was refering to is how the Romans took the land from the Jews and the Arabs took the land from the Romans. So it is still stolen land but one must look back further.

How's that relevant to the issue in Zimbabwe? I don't think it's an apple-apple comparison. Besides, the Israelis themselves took land from other tribes.

Originally posted by Oerdin
I contend if it happened more then a hundred years ago then "returning" the land to its previous owners is just as fraudulent as the original comfiscation.

Why a hundred?

[Panag]

hi ,

and just where is the UN now , ......


have a nice day

[DanS]

"Mugabe's a ****ing twit, and is running the country into the ground. We can always hope that some enterprising young man will find a way to place a bullet in his brain. Despite all this, land redistribution is quite justified in the case of large owners (most of whom owe their wealth directly to the colonialist system)."

A bullet is unneeded. Mugabe is a carcass anyway.

But other than that, I agree with you. Zimbabwe was robbed of so much in colonialism.

[Panag]

Originally posted by DanS
"Mugabe's a ****ing twit, and is running the country into the ground. We can always hope that some enterprising young man will find a way to place a bullet in his brain. Despite all this, land redistribution is quite justified in the case of large owners (most of whom owe their wealth directly to the colonialist system)."

A bullet is unneeded. Mugabe is a carcass anyway.

But other than that, I agree with you. Zimbabwe was robbed of so much in colonialism.

hi ,

he is a low live , but imagine that when he is gone , someone "lower" comes to the scene , .....

where are the days of the Selous , ......
and the days after it , before our low guy , when black and white made something out of that country , ....

have a nice day



edit ; typo

[Carver]

Originally posted by Goingonit
Unfortunately, if America or England (the two most probable candidates) were to try and get rid of Mugabe, all of the 3rd World, plus South Africa and probably much of Europe, would be all over it with the anti-colonialism rhetoric. Mugabe would also regain popular support in a big way.

Damn right.

[Carver]

To David Floyd and the other neo-nazis:

In every nation I can think of it is illegal to recieve or purchase stolen property. Thus, not only are the original white thieves of the land guilty but the second gerantion is guilty for buying or recieving the property and the third, etc. The white landowners who puchased thier property after 1980 are not being touched.

David when exactly did South Africa turn into a ****hole, its been a ****hole for hundreds of years for the blacks, the majority of the population you know. If anything South Africa turned into a ****hole when the Boers began arriving. The whites have killed, raped and stolen from the blacks there with impunity for hundreds of years. So if your definition of ****hole is "nolonger a playground for good ol white boys" then yes, its now a ****hole for you and your ilk.

To those who say recolonize the continent: Belgium's rule over the Congo killed half the population, and you want us to bring back that? Neo-colonialism has already been tried ( and is still being used) in places. Mobutu in Zaire/DRC was little more than a CIA/French employee as he plundered the country and allowed the state to all but collapse. But when Mobutu was threatened by rebels in 1977 & 78 the US and France, of course, still came to his defence with weapons and mercenaries.

No, neo-colonialism would be a disaster. There are plenty of bright spots in Africa, you right wingers just don't know about them becuase you don't know anything about Africa other than starvation and HIV. Tanzania, Zambia, Mozambique, Ghana, Gabon, Senegal, Cameroon and I would include Kenya, are all examples of relatively good governments making economic progress. There's a lot right with Africa.

[Imran Siddiqui]

To David Floyd and the other neo-nazis

You are an utter moron. I guess you'll be going back to Europe then? After all, haven't you recieved or purchased stolen property?

[Panag]

Originally posted by Carver
To David Floyd and the other neo-nazis:

In every nation I can think of it is illegal to recieve or purchase stolen property. Thus, not only are the original white thieves of the land guilty but the second gerantion is guilty for buying or recieving the property and the third, etc. The white landowners who puchased thier property after 1980 are not being touched.

hi ,

sorry , but that is not what what shown today on bbc world , ......

there a guy who bought land and a farm , one in 1989 , and one in 1993 , is being put out of his house , .......

btw , could you please not use some "personal" insults , we are all adults here , no need to call some people "n-n", thanks

have a nice day / night

[Carver]

Originally posted by panag
he is a low live , but imagine that when he is gone , someone "lower" comes to the scene , .....

No, the low lifes were the Israeli technicians who helped South Africa with its nuclear weapons programs and conventional weapons programs such as the Atlas Cheetah/IAI Kfir fighter aircraft. Fortunately, the Israel-South Africa racist axis has been broken.

Where were the B-52s when that weapons of mass destruction program was going on? Nowhere, the US even supplied South Africa with uranium for about 10 years.