Should I send my boys to an all boy school?

[CyberGnu]

Asher: Just give up on BlackIce. He doesn't read your posts anyway, just copy-pastes and calls them "opinions". It is a waste of your time.

Not necessarily. Can you honestly say that current schools are tailer to girls and girls alone?

Right now it's a hybrid in most places. At least that's how it was when I was in California and up in Canada. I certainly didn't have a problem with the quality of education, I'm in higher learning and not a tradeschool like blackice says guys go to now.

Well, in Sweden it seems the first couple of grades are tailored to boys, mainly because boys of that age require so much more attention. So it isn't so much a question of learning differences, just behaviour differences.

In higher grades (7-9 and high school) the teaching seems to be tailored to girls. I can't say I have any scientific backing for this, except that statistically girls in theoretical programs are getting better and better grades as compared to boys. You see what I mean?

I'm one of those people who'd be harmed by going to an all-boys school. I never played, or had a desire to play, school sports, and much of my friends are female.

Oh, I'm not advocating different schools. I'm saying that maybe we should consider gender-specific classes (if the four group approach is out), within the normal school structure. Especially for grades 1-3.

BTW, when I went to grades 7-9 we had separate classes in sports. As a guy who doens't like ballsports much, I don't think this affected me much, but pretty much every single girl I've talked to agreed that this was a great thing...

I feel that Horsie is closing off options to his kids by sending them to a school where they only have male classmates and where school sports are mandatory.

Amen.

[blackice]

Um. Look around on a modern college campus. There's quite a few back to school moms, especially in these condensed summer terms...

So once again we weed out Dr. Asher’s fact from IMO diatribe.

Blackice, there's 51% females in Canada, 49% males. 54% females at a university isn't something to cry about like you're doing.

I don’t remember crying about it? I do remember posting links and studies done by prominent people in the field that state those numbers and that in fact less males each year are going that route. Try this one on for size Dr. Asher, you must know this man with all your books on the subject you have published.

Tom Mortenson, a senior scholar at the Pell Center for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, a Washington-based think tank, and a higher education policy analyst for Postsecondary Education Opportunity, based in Iowa, says that in his 30-year career devoted to eliminating gender imbalances in education, he has witnessed a troubling shift.
"Right around 1990, it hit me that girls had made extraordinary progress between 1970 and 1990," he says. "For me, it was one of those 180-degree reversals: Now I believe that boys are the ones with a gender disadvantage in education. They are where the girls were 25 years ago."
According to the U.S. Department of Education, American girls have been ahead of boys in reading in studies for every year on record, beginning in 1969. But as girls move ahead in math and science, the reverse gender gap, which has shown up on dozens of local and national studies, becomes all the more pronounced.
(The most pressing and intractable educational gaps in the United States are still undeniably those of race and socioeconomic status. American students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are particularly vulnerable to educational discrimination and underachievement: On the PISA study, American students recorded the highest gap out of all participating countries between students in the top and bottom quarter of wealth.)

Of course he does not know what you do right Dr. Asher

It's an obvious reflection of the modern idea of the career woman, and many of the aging baby boomer moms are going back to school now that their kids are grown up. Is it any surprise we see an increase in enrollment?

And you can post a link to this fact? Considering it takes two incomes in today’s modern era and “single” moms dominate the scene I find what you say completely unfounded in reality.

Your studies and links have only shown that more and more women are going to college in this new day & age of the career woman attitude. Your same figures neglect the fact that male enrollment is also up! You're ignoring critical facts just so you can try to make a point, and I don't even think you realize it.

No dr. Asher the links you have admitted not to read yet endlessly fail to entertain us with your “opinions” on them They say a lot more than that if you read them you would not have made such a waste of time statement to respond to. Male enrollment is up and a link to that is where?

Hey, you see my point.

You mean you believe it is a mass male conspiracy to stop women from enrolling in engineering? No I think it is moronic and I typed it for humor.
As for the rest I think you are delusional, totally delusional. You have no idea what you are talking about, again and continue to post your “opinions” as facts. Ignore the facts and continue to post dictatorial diatribe. Give it up man.

You're such an insightful person.

Most people that know me well same the same thing, thanks for noticing.

Do you live your life by stereotypes,

Not at all I face the real world with real thought you?

or just your arguments?

I have something to say here that is meaningful you?

I pity you...

Dr. Asher as I said before you need to dump the boards and take the time to develop yourself, sincerely you need it. I say that in a nice way.

[Asher]

Re: your continuing comments about facts, see my post that followed the one you just replied to.

Originally posted by blackice
According to the U.S. Department of Education, American girls have been ahead of boys in reading in studies for every year on record, beginning in 1969. But as girls move ahead in math and science, the reverse gender gap, which has shown up on dozens of local and national studies, becomes all the more pronounced.

Isn't it funny how they neglect to mention the actual numbers, just so they can promote their cause better? I don't buy everything thrown at me, blackice, just because some guy is telling me something is happening it's meaningless unless he has some real numbers for me.

Male enrollment is up and a link to that is where?

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/edu/2002/pd062502c.html

Nevermind the take of the study it has (it's pretty much the same as yours), since it is in fact the EXACT same study you cited earlier. This report mentions numbers and other facts, such as:

The number of male college graduates has increased much more slowly, to 529,000.

I appreciate how they're trying to slant it with a "much more slowly" addition there, since they aren't even talking about rate of change or give previous figures. But there you have it, male enrollment is up. It's just that female enrollment is going up faster, which is likely due to the increasing enrollment of baby-boomers going back to school (which tend to be moms who are no longer housewives).

You mean you believe it is a mass male conspiracy to stop women from enrolling in engineering? No I think it is moronic and I typed it for humor.

Man...how can you be so slow? Of course I don't believe it's a mass male conspiracy, I was drawing a parallel as to you using that argument to a lesser extent when female enrollment goes up faster than males, it's suddenly all of the school's faults, even though male is going up also...

You have no idea what you are talking about, again and continue to post your “opinions” as facts. Ignore the facts and continue to post dictatorial diatribe. Give it up man.

blackice, you're not understanding anything I'm saying. It's obvious. You think you do though, and it's getting really annoying.

Not at all I face the real world with real thought you?

You face the real world, so any woman who is in a woodshop class is a "tomboy"? Face it, blackice, you're living by stereotypes, not the real world. It's just that your feeble mind can't handle anything that's not in extreme white or black -- you need shades of gray in your life.

[Asher]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Asher: Just give up on BlackIce. He doesn't read your posts anyway, just copy-pastes and calls them "opinions". It is a waste of your time.

You're completely right. I'm going to stop trying now, it's obvious that he can't see the whole picture. It's just so frustrating when he's the one accusing everyone who disagrees with him as being less informed, just because he chooses to ignore facts to try to make his point. As soon as someone starts pointing out that the "reports" and "studies" he's been reading have been leaving out these facts and figures I'm mentioning, it's suddenly a fact that I know less on the situation as these doctors who are pushing their agenda.

Even now he's going to keep posting trolls for me to respond in broken English and calling me "Dr. Asher" like a child in kindergarten...

So I'm out now. Not even going to read the thread anymore...

[SuperSneak]

Just don't forget that there are a lot of intangibles involved that cannot be easily quantified by some touchy feeley psycho babbler, on either side of the issue.

[blackice]

Asher: Just give up on BlackIce. He doesn't read your posts anyway, just copy-pastes and calls them "opinions". It is a waste of your time.

They are “opinions” A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof. Yup looks like “opinion” to me. Well another “opinionated” poster with no base in fact. Explain how one can respond to what is said if they do not read it? We are not talking Dr. Asher here who claims not to read things Yet endlessly post’s “opinions” On what he has not read

So it isn't so much a question of learning differences, just behaviour differences.

I know I am wasting my breath with this but can you post a link to back your “opinion”. Could the two be related, obviously there are differences in the genders then or are you “stereotyping” as Dr. Asher claims.

I can't say I have any scientific backing for this, except that statistically girls in theoretical programs are getting better and better grades as compared to boys. You see what I mean?

The backing for what you said was posted by me several times. Several different researchers with varying opinions but they all agree the sexes learn differently and at different rates.

Oh, I'm not advocating different schools. I'm saying that maybe we should consider gender-specific classes (if the four group approach is out), within the normal school structure. Especially for grades 1-3.

End result is neither am I but the present school environment here has gender specific classes for girls not boys. So in the mean time an all boys school will cater to boys and their needs.
We do agree I see.

[blackice]

More unfounded tripe from Dr. Asher the child education specialist. Some people want to read facts Dr. Not some "opinions" with no merit or backing.

It seems to me to understand something you need to read about it. Learn about it, live it research it. What you rarely posted "facts" some of it has a lot of merit as I already stated. But by simply ignoring other factors such as gender you miss the whole picture or the potential to understand the issue. It's complexity and the research done to qualify the problem. Without that you can not solve the problem or make an informed decission.

Just don't forget that there are a lot of intangibles involved that cannot be easily quantified by some touchy feeley psycho babbler, on either side of the issue.

Absolutely as I have meantioned. It good to see it is at least getting the attention it desrves.

[CyberGnu]

Asher, I still had a few questions for you. Don't leave the thread entirely because of the deficiencies of one person...

[Shi Huangdi]

"My own son had to struggle through Amy Tan's 'Joy Luck Club' when he was in the 10th grade," she adds. "It has some attractive features, but it is full of annoying psychobabble about women and their self-esteem struggles. He disliked it. If teachers are going to assign books in popular literature, they should consider the needs and interests of boys."

Ya- we had plenty of crappy books like that at my coed public school- and there was a method we had of dealing with it- Cheat. No, I don't have any idea about the various symbols in Kate Chopin's the awakening, but I am sure www.sparknotes.com does.

[CyberGnu]

Oooh, I have nothing against inflicting psychobabble on young boys - as long as equal time is devoted to 'the philosophy of Rambo'.

[blackice]

Cheat

Exactly, CyberGnu well with the exception I do not agree with teaching boys to be girls.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Echinda
So what about Drake's question, AH? Are you going to follow the collective wisdom of 'poly ?

I think the answer to that is fairly obvious

[SuperSneak]

Yes....Horse knows that in all that massive pile of crap, he can always count on ol' Sneak to provide the necessary gems he needs.
I will still base my decision about private vs. public on the child and the school, ultimately. Not everyone is going to flourish in every environment. I'm sure Asher would have done much better in an all girls school, and his makeup application would certainly have improved.

And Blackice would really thrive under Jane Goodall's tutelage.

[Alexander's Horse]

Asher strikes me as the kind who has trouble with girls, or indeed no girls.

[SuperSneak]

Apparently, Asher has decided that his odds are better by being open to opportunities that present themselves to people of his unique gender.