The Definitive Thread: US vs. Russia

[David Floyd]

By "wipe the floor", I meant that the US would clearly and easily achieve reasonable military goals within a relatively short period of time. The US would wipe the floor with the Russian Navy, and would knock out a large proportion of Russian strategic bombing forces, without taking significant losses in return. To me, this is "wiping the floor" with Russia.

One more point before I go to work - you can say that US carriers "run away" from your Kirovs, but that's not entirely accurate. Sure, the carriers are staying out of your missile envelope, but this is a valid, logical tactic, no matter who the enemy is, if it's a Kirov or a rowboat. And the carriers are still launching air strikes, not just steaming for port. So call it whatever you like, it doesn't really change the substance of the action.

[1]

It seems to me that Serb changes some of his figures when he sees fit. Its like if you say...

I can take 3 punches.... then I respond... I can deliver 3 punches exactly.... then you say.... oh wait, I mean TEN punches, I MENT to say I can take TEN punches, your three punches are USELESS!

Sounds kinda lame to me.

[ranskaldan]

"Hypothetical" is a nasty word.

First, there are no nukes because it's "hypothetical". Then, no countries would object to being used as American bases because it's "hypothetical". Let me see... the Americans would immediately invent the light sabre within twenty-four hours because it's "hypothetical"?

- no nukes. that's it. all other countries start as neutrals and are up for grabs by the two sides.

As for wiping the floor: I tend to believe that "wiping the floor" refers to what the Russians did to the Germans, - or what the Americans did to the Japanese.

Will the Americans be able to do that again (but to the Russians)??

[muxec]

Both will lose.

[Serb]

Blayat, do chto zhe eto takoe? Ya chto edinstvennyi russkii zdes? Muzhiki kak dolgo vi namereny terpet etu huynu? Etot pidor zabugornii v konkretno ohuevaet. Neuzheli ne chego otvetit? Vagabond a ti chto molchish?
Ne vremya molchat. Socialisticheskoe otechestvo v opasnosti.

[Bereta_Eder]

Great picture Serb

Copied

[Bereta_Eder]

Can you translate for me what the picture says?

[Serb]

Originally posted by David Floyd
By "wipe the floor", I meant that the US would clearly and easily achieve reasonable military goals within a relatively short period of time. The US would wipe the floor with the Russian Navy, and would knock out a large proportion of Russian strategic bombing forces, without taking significant losses in return. To me, this is "wiping the floor" with Russia.

reasonable military goals?
You think you could achive your military goals and just say- "Ok, listen Russkies, we already acheived our reasonable goals, so we don't need to fight anymore. Ok?"
Your problem that you don't know Russians and that you beleive that you are invincible.
In 1812 Napoleon wanted to acheive his reasonable military goals and he beleived that he is invincible too. Sure why not, he already conquered almost entire Europe and he was one of the greates strategist of all times. I guess he thought that it's a peice a of cake for him to crush "weak Russia". He took our capital. He acheived his goals and offered a peace treaty. The resopnd was- "F*ck off Boanaparte. You are dead man and we don't sign treaties with deadmans". And then his army was wiped out from our lands.
In 1941 Hitler wanted to acheive his reasonable goals and surely he beleived that he is invincible too. Sure why not, he already conquered almost entire Europe like Napoleon. His industry (the industry of conquered Europe) out produced SU almost twice. He has supreme 6 million army- conqurers of Europe, elite of World's military vs 3,3 millions in Russian army which was badly damaged during Stalin's purges. Did he acheived his goals? No. We don't talk with dead mans.
If you will ever attack Russia, you are dead man too. Forget about your "reasonable goals", forget about reasons, forget about logic, about your trainings etc. As long as you fight vs. Russia your western logic don't work. If you think that you could took Kamchatka, or destroy our Navy and then sign a peace treaty, you are in deep sh*t. We will keep fighting until will see our flag waving over ruins of your senate or until all of us will be dead. This is our major principle, the reason why no one conqured us during ages- " kto k nam s mechom pridet tot ot mecha i pogibnet"- the one who will come to us with sword will be slain by this sword.
So put your "reasonable goals" in your reasonable ass and be ready for war to the end if you dare to attack us.
We will bury you, as we always done and we always will to any aggressor who attacked us.

One more point before I go to work - you can say that US carriers "run away" from your Kirovs, but that's not entirely accurate. Sure, the carriers are staying out of your missile envelope, but this is a valid, logical tactic, no matter who the enemy is, if it's a Kirov or a rowboat. And the carriers are still launching air strikes, not just steaming for port. So call it whatever you like, it doesn't really change the substance of the action.

You may beleive in everything what you want. You maight beleive that you are wisiest person on this planet or that you know more about naval warfare then people who created Soviet/Russian Naval doctrine based on use of cruise missiles to sink carriers, but it doesn't mean that you are wisiest man or that you are wisiest then hundreds of generals and engineers.

[DanS]

Serb: There are only two useful measurements, in my opinion.

1) GDP: US $10 trillion; Russia $1 trillion
2) Population: US 280 million; Russia 150 million

That is a recipe for achieving reasonable military goals. In both of the situations you cited, one of these criteria wasn't met.

As for this hypothetical, why on Earth would we want to fight for a square foot of Russian soil? I could hardly bring myself to post 2 paragraphs for it.

[Serb]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Can you translate for me what the picture says?

Aproximate translation is "The Motherland is calling for you."
Created in 1941.

[Bereta_Eder]

And you know that americans will surrender the moment we carpet bomb one of their cities so what's the discussion for

[DanS]

What's this "we" stuff? You should know better than to eat at the table of your betters.

[Serb]

Originally posted by DanS
Serb: There are only two useful measurements, in my opinion.

1) GDP: US $10 trillion; Russia $1 trillion
2) Population: US 280 million; Russia 150 million

That is a recipe for achieving reasonable military goals. In both of the situations you cited, one of these criteria wasn't met.

1) Means nothing. In case of war our entire country will turn in military factory. Our industry will produce nothing except weapons 24 hours a day. And it will be not a freemarket economy like yours, but total planed militarized economy of "SU during WW2" type. Forget that you will able to out produce us.
2) Means nothing. Is your society ready to lost say 10-15 million people? We are more then ready, when our Rodina in danger. You are not.

As for this hypothetical, why on Earth would we want to fight for a square foot of Russian soil?

Because in 2020 people like David who suffering from euphoria about you recent vicories vs third world's countries, who beleive that USA is invincible and who beleive in general ****nes of Russian army will rule your country.

[Bereta_Eder]

i have my own table. it is 5000 years old oak wood, so your mc donald's plastic one hardly interests me.

you'll surrender the moment we carpet bomb one of your cities. you dont have balls as OBL demonstarted

[DanS]

"1) Means nothing. In case of war our entire country will turn in military factory. Our industry will produce nothing except weapons 24 jours a day. And it will be not freemarket economy like yours, but total planed militarized economy of SU during WW2 type. Forget that you will able to out produce us."

We won't give you nearly as much to time for a buildup as the Germans did. They were amateurs.

"2) Means nothing. Is your society ready to lost say 10-15 million people? We are more then ready, when our Rodina in danger. You are not."

How can you know? Just because we've been wise enough to let the Russians be the poor bastards to die for their country, doesn't mean that we wouldn't do it.

"Because in 2020 people like David who suffering from euphoria about you recent vicories vs third world's countries, who beleive that USA is invincible and who beleive in general ****nes of Russian army will rule your country."

Ah, so now we're talking 2020? We're putting in $400 billion per annum into our military. Russia... isn't.

By that time we'll have created that clone army by those funny looking tall aliens and your ass will be ours on a platter.