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The Definitive Thread: US vs. Russia

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  • The Definitive Thread: US vs. Russia

    Assuming all allies stay out of it, and assuming the war stays conventional, who wins in a war between the US and Russia?

    Personally, I see no reason to think anything other than that the US would wipe the floor with Russia. We couldn't invade very well, except for possible strikes in the Soviet Far East, maybe seize the Petropavlovsk area, however, the Russian fleet would be utterly destroyed within hours of the declaration of war, at negligible cost to the USN, although the US would probably lose a few submarines. I doubt we'd lose a carrier, though.

    This could be followed up by stealth aircraft attacks at various targets throughout Russia, with little chance of being intercepted, especially in the case of B-2A Spirits, and while they certainly could not vitally damage Russia, they could cause major damage to selected locations.

    But the big knockout blow would be economic. The US could institute a full naval blockade against Russia, and basically stop any food from getting in. While Russia could get a lot of resources over land routes, much of their food comes from overseas, which would be cut off. In addition, US investment would end, and without access to the bigger international markets, Russia's economy would slowly go down the tubes even more.

    Assuming a conventional war between the US and Russia, the US could project as much power as it needed anywhere it wanted, while Russia has almost no power projection ability. Thus, any naval battles would be fought at locations of America's choosing, and the US would have the ability to strike at will with strategic stealth bombers anywhere in Russia - the Russian air force can't be everywhere.

    Serb, and other pro-Russian posters, what are your thoughts?
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  • #2
    In this hypothetical, what keeps the Chinese from conquering Siberia?
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    • #3
      The US always had the military advantage over Russia. It wasn't until after the fall the of the Soviet Union that it released how far. Probably a good thing though.

      Anyway, why would the US and Russia go to war these days? If anything, they are likely to become strong allies.
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      • #4
        True, DaShi, but this is a hypothetical - Serb seems to think the US would actually have trouble fighting Russia, and I'm trying to show him how he's wrong.

        Oh, and DD, nothing keeps China from conquering Siberia, although I think the Russian military is far superior to the Chinese military, and even without nukes it would be a toss-up to see if Russia could transfer enough military power into Siberia along the Trans-Siberian railroad before China would win by sheer numbers.
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        • #5
          "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

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          • #6
            Who wins in Russia Vs USA?

            China.
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            • #7
              The most powerful? US. The two fighting a war? One attacking the other would be completely infeasible and futile given the military power of both. And in the real world, there are nukes too...
              Speaking of Erith:

              "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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              • #8
                the cockroaches of america are already throwing parties

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                • #9
                  I said non-nuclear
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                  • #10
                    This is what I'd say...

                    If infantry and tanks came toe to toe, the Americans would win (so conventional land battles that don't involve much air support go to the U.S.)

                    As for navy battles, America has the upper hand here as well. However, America will see some very nasty surprises in the form of carriers being sunk (yes that will happen - I'm fairly sure Russian military policy calls for the use of nuclear-tipped torpedoes in case of even conventional war. And the Russians have good ones, the ones Edwin Pope was trying to get information on when he got busted). Also, America will have issues in controlling the Mediterranean and Black Sea until its air power in the area destroys the Russian Black Sea fleet.

                    Conventional missiles and airplanes - that's more of a skill of the pilot thing. Russia has very advanced air defense that is well maintained and America will have serious trouble defeating it unless it actually decides to invade and destroy it from the ground.

                    In which case, expect heavy casualties... The professional American army and the Russian standing army might both run out of men real fast.

                    Other points include:
                    - Stealth technology: might be effective against third world nations, but would not do much for American pilots in Russian airspace (high resolution radars with excellent software and engineering).
                    - Tank battles: hope the Russians run out of fuel first
                    - Bombing: will likely have to be done using missiles, as vast numbers of SAMs prove their superiority over any enemy aircraft.
                    - If America screws up invading Russia, Russian military production will skyrocket.
                    - If Russia invades America, expect complete devastation of nearly everything... American defense is nothing compared to its "power projection" or to Russian defense.
                    - Don't underestimate the enemy, whosever side you're on.
                    - Whoever pushes too hard first will have his nuts kicked in by a nuke.
                    - If any nation comes too close to the enemy's nuclear weapons facilities, plan on the weapons contained therein being used immediately.
                    - Any USN superiority over the Russian pacific fleet (yes, America will kick Russia's ass gun-for-gun) can easily be negated by missile attacks. In addition, the Russian missile cruiser-group-based approach will give the American carrier groups some issues.

                    I see it this way
                    If America can just do it fast (less than 1 year), then there's no doubt it would win in the end.
                    Otherwise it will not end decisively.
                    If after 5 or so years the conflict continues indecisively and Russia is willing to fight on, then you will most definetely see introduction of all that sweet-ass Russian military technology that the Russian armed forces can't afford, as well as a large number of veteran Russian soldiers/sailors/pilots out for blood... So plan on being f*cked in that case Russian missile attacks WILL take their heavy toll on the American economy in any case, so no b*tching about how America can outproduce Russia.





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                    • #11
                      Re: The Definitive Thread: US vs. Russia

                      Originally posted by David Floyd
                      ... much of their food comes from overseas, which would be cut off.
                      Russia now produces enough food by itself. For example, last year there was a huge surplus of grain. This is quite a remarkable achievement of the new Russia as compared to the USSR, which was a net importer of grain. Unfortunately, due to discriminatory trade conditions Russia faces from all sides, it was not possible to realize this surplus abroad.

                      Another example. Russia dreams of getting rid of American chicken imports. There is enough chicken produced domestically. Nevertheless, due to political reasons, Russia has to keep buying this chicken.

                      Thus it is quite a misconception to say that Russia would starve if isolated. Don't confuse the present situation with the one ten years ago.

                      In addition, US investment would end, and without access to the bigger international markets, Russia's economy would slowly go down the tubes even more.
                      LOL. In this case Russia won't have anything to lose and will almost certainly move to a 'mobilizational' kind of economy. The economy won't be much worse than now.

                      Assuming all allies stay out of it, ...
                      If we additionally assume that both countries are in a complete international isolation, this would shift the balance in Russia's favor.

                      Originally posted by Krayzeenbk
                      If America can just do it fast (less than 1 year), then there's no doubt it would win in the end.
                      Otherwise it will not end decisively.
                      If after 5 or so years the conflict continues indecisively and Russia is willing to fight on, then you will most definetely see introduction of all that sweet-ass Russian military technology that the Russian armed forces can't afford, as well as a large number of veteran Russian soldiers/sailors/pilots out for blood... So plan on being f*cked in that case Russian missile attacks WILL take their heavy toll on the American economy in any case, so no b*tching about how America can outproduce Russia.
                      You have a point, Krayzeenbk. America is now appreciably more poweful than Russia, and the best chance for America to win is to do it as fast as possible. However, if it turns into a protracted war, the chances of Russia will considerably increase with each year elapsed.
                      Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

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                      • #12
                        Here I am as I promised David.


                        Krayzeenbk, good analysys
                        David, pathetic as always you've made not a single point, but just waving US flag
                        Vagabond, nash zabugornyi drug nazalupalsa v konec. Ya imeyu v vidu zarya davida konechno Skoro ya im zaimus.


                        Don't heve time now. I'll post later.

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                        • #13
                          Is this thread a joke? USSR wouldn't be able to match with USA... And Russia... America has much much much better army... That Russia/SU was never afraid of losses of its soldiers (vide mine-fields of ww2) and Americans are is a completely different thing.
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                          I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                          Middle East!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Serb


                            Don't heve time now. I'll post later.
                            I understand you need time to pull facts out of your ass. We will wait for you.


                            The Winner is China
                            The Loser is Canada
                            Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

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                            • #15
                              No. I was in need of time to finish my job.
                              Facts? No, not today, facts will be later, today only emotions.

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