When the Soviet Union comes back.

[Giancarlo]

Fez, capitalism is not god. Free market does not necessarily entail huge corporations.

Free Market has its problems I admit and will continue to admit. Those problems are overcome by the positives.

The question one should ask is, what justification does any government have? It is only the pleasure of the people. Furtheremore, one person may not control another. Why should millions of people do the same to the general population?

If one group of people are not to fit to govern, then who gives one person the right to govern others? Basically paraphrasing Ronald Reagan in his first inaugural address.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Dan Severn
ens of millions of political dissidentswere killed by Stalin's purges, whether you are prepared to believe it or not.

There weren't tens of millions of political dissidents (speaking as a representitive of the political tendency that was most persecuted in the USSR, Trotskyism). The number of political murders was a little under one million (800,000 - 900,000). Most of the people who died in the USSR were killed during the famine caused by the collectivisation of agriculture. I've seen figures between three and thirteen million dead for that.

In addition, a few million gulag prisoners likely starved during the war, since supplies were needed elsewhere. You have a choice, send food to your soldiers and factory workers or to convicts (the vast majority of whom were sent away for non-political crimes). It's not a really hard choice when you are on the brink of annihilation.

[moomin]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There weren't tens of millions of political dissidents (speaking as a representitive of the political tendency that was most persecuted in the USSR, Trotskyism). The number of political murders was a little under one million (800,000 - 900,000). Most of the people who died in the USSR were killed during the famine caused by the collectivisation of agriculture. I've seen figures between three and thirteen million dead for that.

In addition, a few million gulag prisoners likely starved during the war, since supplies were needed elsewhere. You have a choice, send food to your soldiers and factory workers or to convicts (the vast majority of whom were sent away for non-political crimes). It's not a really hard choice when you are on the brink of annihilation.

Have you no shame?

Or is this disgusting argument - revisionism - intended to illustrate yet another similarity between right and left socialists (nazi and commies)?

For your information, here are the conservative estimates of Soviet victims of communist murders:

*** Soviet democide from 1917-1991

Total: 61,911,000
Terror: 8,298,000
Deportations: 4,349,000+
Concentration Camps: 39,464,000
Forced Famine 7,833,000

*** Period Years Total killed

Civil War From 1917 3,284,000
Terror: 750,000
Concentration Camps: 34,000
Forced Famine : 2,500,000

NEP 1923 2,200,000
Collectivization 1929 11,440,000
Terror: 1,733,000
Deportations: 1,400,000
Concentration Camps: 3,306,000
Forced Famine : 5,000,000

Great Terror 1936 4,345,000
Terror: 1,000,000
Deportations: 65,000
Concentration Camps: 3,280,000

Pre-WWII 1939 5,104,000
Terror: 1,932,000
Deportations: 283,000
Concentration Camps: 2,889,000

World War II 1941 13,053,000
Terror: 1,257,000
Deportations: 1,036,000
Concentration Camps: 10,761,000

Post-War 1946 15,613,000
Terror: 1,376,000
Deportations: 1,557,000
Concentration Camps: 12,348,000

Post-Stalin 1954 6,872,000
Terror: 250,000
Deportations: 8,000
Concentration Camps: 6,613,000

Figures from Rummel's _Death by Government_. Remember thes are conservative estimates.

Downplaying all these murders that your commie idols commited just to make communism look good is so far beyond decency I lack words to properly express my disgust and loathing.

[chequita guevara]

Since he consistently over inflates death by the left and continuously underestimates death by the Western democracies, I think its safe to say his stats are unreliable. Even the notoriously bad Black Book of Communism doesn't say that 61 million Soviets died by their government's own hands. If they had, the Soviets would have collapsed a long, long time ago, having killed off a third of their population.

You'll just believe anything a right winger tells you, won't you?

[chequita guevara]

And, oh yeah, go **** yourself.

[Giancarlo]

I am shocked that communists have managed to execute so many people. I greatly underestimated the number I thought previously.... and anybody who defends the USSR needs some serious medical help!

[Saras]

When the Soviet Union comes back, I join the resistance and kill as many commies before they kill me.

[Verto]

May I ask how many of Soviet/Communist supporters are also against America?

Because I can see why...wait, no, I can't. Those who want to talk about how great the Soviet system was...well, maybe they were dropped on their heads as a baby.

[Ecthy]

very constructive

[Stefu]

You have a choice, send food to your soldiers and factory workers or to convicts (the vast majority of whom were sent away for non-political crimes). It's not a really hard choice when you are on the brink of annihilation.

Say, Cheggers, doesn't this excuse the Red deaths in camps in aftermath of Finnish civil war? I mean, choice between feeding the people loyal to the government or people engaging in armed rebellion against that government...

[Saras]

che, you really are a monster after all. All this bull about "communism is about love" is, in fact, bull.

:vomit:

[monkspider]

We are not against America Verto, we are against godless capitalism.

[Az]

60 million people? yes, sure.

anyway, since people continue to present Stalin as an example of communism , I am forced to igore this thread.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by Dan Severn
ens of millions of political dissidentswere killed by Stalin's purges, whether you are prepared to believe it or not.

There weren't tens of millions of political dissidents (speaking as a representitive of the political tendency that was most persecuted in the USSR, Trotskyism). The number of political murders was a little under one million (800,000 - 900,000). Most of the people who died in the USSR were killed during the famine caused by the collectivisation of agriculture. I've seen figures between three and thirteen million dead for that.

In addition, a few million gulag prisoners likely starved during the war, since supplies were needed elsewhere. You have a choice, send food to your soldiers and factory workers or to convicts (the vast majority of whom were sent away for non-political crimes). It's not a really hard choice when you are on the brink of annihilation.

i believe that finally kgb records released under yeltsin showed that about 4 million people were represed, not murdered, in the 30s
200 million thing was, of course, a sarcastic remark. according to the maths laid out very often, there should not be a single living russian, let alone chechen or ukrainian. solzhenitsin was the first one to start that silly licitation - he met a deserved fate, a second rate writer despised by many...
what most of those grossly inflated figures are overlooking is that you cannot really say gulags were death camps. they were brutal forced labor camps, often torture camps and brainwashing. but it was not a soap factory. to kill that many people as moomin's quote estimates, you got to have german efficiency (i hope this does not insult germans)

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Saras
When the Soviet Union comes back, I join the resistance and kill as many commies before they kill me.

oh 'forest people', the 'friends' of jews and 'enemies' of fascists