Rugby - The beautiful game

[finbar]

Re: Re: Re: Posting in "Havak & Finbar Rugby Thread"

Originally posted by Caligastia
This is not a democracy.

Phew! What a relief. We can ditch vote-gathering and go straight for the military coup!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Ah, I see. I didnt read your post properly, and so I thought you were talking about if he said that after a game against the All Blacks or the Wallabies. I can understand how that comment would be offensive to the scottish and the irish. They must have a real inferiority complex!

No bigger or smaller than New Zealand's, I'd've thought.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
God forbid the overwhelming majority population of the Uk should offend a minority of it you see.

Why not just wind the clock back five centuries, crank up the army, invade the bastards and be done with it? Much easier in the long run.

[finbar]

Interesting thoughts from former AB winger Stu Wilson on the AB resurgence.

[Andydog]

Good article that. I remember when John Mitchell first took his post he said he would take the 'individualism' out of NZ rugby. He is certainly doing that. I see he's taken Lomu out of Saturday's game - Leon MacDonald taking his spot on the bench.

I also see that Tuqiri has joined the Waratahs. I had read somewhere that the Reds where his preferrence, but I guess it's not surprising he 'chose' the Waratahs given that the Reds have Tune & Sailor, and ACT has Rolf playing along side Mortlock and Walker.

btw, has anyone read this?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
Good article that. I remember when John Mitchell first took his post he said he would take the 'individualism' out of NZ rugby. He is certainly doing that. I see he's taken Lomu out of Saturday's game - Leon MacDonald taking his spot on the bench.

I think there's a lot of sense in what he says too.

I also see that Tuqiri has joined the Waratahs. I had read somewhere that the Reds where his preferrence, but I guess it's not surprising he 'chose' the Waratahs given that the Reds have Tune & Sailor, and ACT has Rolf playing along side Mortlock and Walker.

I think it was inevitable he'd go to the Waratahs for exactly those reasons.

[ravagon]

Seen it before but it makes still makes an interesting read a second time around. One of my favourite bits ...

But the other category paid fulsome tribute to the warmth of the welcome afforded to outsiders by the people of Japan and Korea. By all accounts, this was unconditional, remarkable and genuine. The hosts were genuinely interested in their visitors and memorably, most decided to support a second team in the tournament as well as their own. There was the sight of thousands of Japanese and Koreans decked out in the colours of Brazil, England, and even of the dear old Germans.

I can just see Aussie crowds kitted out in AB, RSA and UK football jerseys, waving their arms around and cheering those respective teams ... only to begin running for cover as the flying pigs begin strafing the arena.

Slightly different situation mind you. The Japs/ROKs are relative minnows in soccer and never expected their teams to do nearly as well as they did. Oz OTOH (although still rather thin, darty and silvery next to NZ ) is not in quite the same position.
Judging from Havaks post on page [goodness knows what] though, foreign teams don't and won't, leave this place with the same sentiment expressed by many of the teams competing in Kor/Japan WC2002.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
btw, has anyone read this?

Yes, Havak pointed it out to me a month or so ago. As I said to Havak at the time, I can't take seriously any so-called journo who misuses the word "fulsome" as he does in the 5th paragraph and relies on unsourced, unsubstantiated stories as evidence. I could probably go on - as I did to poor Havak - but I won't.

Well, I will. Suffice it to say that he completely misunderstands the Australian sporting public. The WRC will be like the Olympics all over again. One very big, very happy occasion. The Australian sporting public will seek out and support the underdogs and barrack for them all the way.

And that's all I have to say on the matter. For which, I'm sure, Havak's eyeballs will be enormously grateful.

[Havak]

They must have a real inferiority complex!

Not at all – just the usual story of a minority of idiots looking to vent silly agendas. For some reason any sign of English patriotism will always bring the lunatic fringe out of the other UK nations.

As you and I constantly prove

Way more solid a case that Ming’s usual wrap ups

Bizarre decision.

Bizarre player – languishing in obscurity in a Scottish provincial team. Never IMO the stuff ABs captains should be made of.

I find it hard to believe Jason Little would ever not put in

I’m not arguing with the man who used to wear the Wallaby shirt in that regard – but any number of things can cause this when a player heads abroad – I saw him play some very good games for Bristol – and I saw him play some very anonymous ones too. I don’t think he was happy here – England in winter is not for everyone (not even for me a lot of the time).

I’ll say again – poor club choice. I have little time for either club he chose up here. He would have been happier at *spit* Bath even I think.

You can't to expect to bugger up the world with the hangovers of your colonial derring do

Never said we were perfect

Generally far more well intentioned than most colonial powers though. Actually I could debate the pros and cons of the empire with you but Caligastia wouldn’t like it for sure – living in the rebel colonies as he does.

Just a pity they don't pay a red cent.

If they did you would be rich.

Exactly. It's the colonial insecurity thing again.

It’s an interesting take on it. I think the Australians are also unique in the way they define themselves through sport. It doesn’t mean anywhere near no much to the national identity here I think it’s fair to say.

Much easier in the long run.

We are currently pretending to be a civilised nation however.

I found it very interesting to see you applaud Mitchell introducing competition for the shirt. I wonder if you
know where he picked that concept up from?

foreign teams don't and won't, leave this place with the same sentiment expressed by many of the teams competing in Kor/Japan WC2002.

I can only go from my own experience. Fundamental errors were made in the treatment of opposing fans on the Lions tour last year. You don’t endear fans to your country or it’s people by hammering the message “you are not welcome, **** off” inside the test grounds.

I also found it disturbing that the home fans bizarrely have a tendency to hide their colours until they know how the game is going – they don’t wear the shirt in any great numbers and the hats and scarves only appear if the Aussies get the upper hand (I saw this first hand in Melbourne).

I’m my experience only I have to say that Aussie sporting crowds were also the worst winners (gloaters) AND the worst losers (sulkers) I have experienced in rugby – and this from a man who has experienced England beating Wales in Wales remember!

However, and it is a big however so I hope Finbar had the patience to get here, Finbar has told me my experience does not match his, and he does not think it representative of Aussie crowds. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that as it’s his country not mine – and I do acknowledge that the tour I was on was stupidly marketed by both sides with silly racist undertones.

I’m willing to give sport in Aussie another bash with as open a mind as this Englishman can muster. I will watch RWC carefully however to look for jingoistic nonsense. I do struggle to accept the Aussie fans will be generous in applauding any team they think capable of beating them?

It is a fact that the crowd at Twickenham will at the very least politely applaud the ABs and Wallabies when they score a try (this is actually an English tradition/hangup from the amateur era) – if the score is top drawer you may even get an ‘enthusiastic’ response. Don’t misunderstand me – English fans don’t like to lose but they do accept it more generously than I saw the Aussies do in Brissy. Shall we see if the Wallaby fans are so generous en masse to the ABs on Saturday?

You’ll note I limited this to my own thoughts not those of Jones – I have no problem with Finbar ripping that guy apart (verbally of course).

On a different note there is an interesting piece of the laws of the game here

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by Havak
I can only go from my own experience. Fundamental errors were made in the treatment of opposing fans on the Lions tour last year. You don’t endear fans to your country or it’s people by hammering the message “you are not welcome, **** off” inside the test grounds.

Why not? There were too many of you blokes! We want our home team advantage!

Originally posted by Havak
I also found it disturbing that the home fans bizarrely have a tendency to hide their colours until they know how the game is going – they don’t wear the shirt in any great numbers and the hats and scarves only appear if the Aussies get the upper hand (I saw this first hand in Melbourne).

Hmm. Can't speak for Victorians (they've got this odd game called AFL), but us New South Welshmen are dedicated.

Originally posted by Havak
I’m my experience only I have to say that Aussie sporting crowds were also the worst winners (gloaters)

Where's this from? Surely your not talking about gracoius Sydney crowds?

Originally posted by Havak
AND the worst losers (sulkers) I have experienced in rugby – and this from a man who has experienced
England beating Wales in Wales remember!

What, you want us to be happy if we lose? Sulkers mate, not maniacs. Unlike some others...(cough-England)

Don't know where you've been sitting (and it seems you've been in Victoria too many times) but I think Aussies crowds are great sports. We go to support the team, not act like ******

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Bizarre player – languishing in obscurity in a Scottish provincial team. Never IMO the stuff ABs captains should be made of.

Is that where he finished up? Scotland? I did wonder where he'd got to. Briefly, at some stage, I recall. He did seem a bit of a captaincy aberration. Got it - apart from a shortage of good candidates - because he was considered a good S12 skipper, I recall.

I saw him play some very good games for Bristol – and I saw him play some very anonymous ones too. I don’t think he was happy here – England in winter is not for everyone (not even for me a lot of the time).

No, I gather he found your winter a bit of a problem. Pity. It was hard to assess his form - and the extent of his future - when he left here. His last season - with the Waratahs, after leaving Queensland - was only average. But that was the season - or one of the many seasons - of massive discord within the NSW camp. All very poisonous. No one played consistently well, as can happen when off-field dramas get in the way.

(I, OTOH, love a good Pommy winter. And have enjoyed several. I don't even mind the 4 1/2 hours of daylight! Must be my perverse nature. I'd love to travel between the hemispheres twice a year avoiding summer altogether. Another reason why I don't fit in here)

He would have been happier at *spit* Bath even I think.

I notice M. Foley - he's at Bath, isn't he? - has recruited another couple of Australians onto his coaching and back-up staff. Our 7s skipper, nearing retirement, is one of them.

Generally far more well intentioned than most colonial powers though.

Pretty much, I guess. Put it this way - if the Dutch had got their mitts on us first, I'd be discussing hockey, tulips and cheese with red plastic wrapped around it instead of rugby.

Actually I could debate the pros and cons of the empire with you but Caligastia wouldn’t like it for sure – living in the rebel colonies as he does.

I hope you noticed his declaration that this ain't a democracy. And my thought about an armed coup. I'm already stockpiling.

I think the Australians are also unique in the way they define themselves through sport. It doesn’t mean anywhere near no much to the national identity here I think it’s fair to say.

It's because the average Australian is narrow-minded, devoid of imagination and anti-intellectual. Heartily encouraged by our current racist, fascist government. (Publish and be damned!, is what I say to Caligastia!) Anything remotely cerebral embarrasses the average Australian. It's beyond them that there are myriad means of defining a nation. Sport, for them, is very simple and straightforward - you either win or lose.

I found it very interesting to see you applaud Mitchell introducing competition for the shirt.

Why?

I wonder if you know where he picked that concept up from?

Surprise me.

I do acknowledge that the tour I was on was stupidly marketed by both sides with silly racist undertones.

That, I think, is the bottom line to the whole Lions experience. I know we're going over really old ground - even if our thread newcomers missed it last time, which they should probably count as a blessing - but, in this country, there's a habit of marketing to the Lowest Common Denominator.

I'm sure it happens in a lot of countries, but, unfortunately, our LCD is somewhere beneath sewer level. International One Day Cricket here - day/night, that is - is somewhere you wouldn't want to take your family. Drunken yobbos. Thanks to marketing. When rugby follows the same marketing strategy, they will end up with the same result. It gives me the sh*ts. Hugely. It would explain the problems Havak and his chums ran into last time.

The WRC, though, isn't a Lions tour. Or even an All Blacks tour. (And I still stand by my assertion that the Australian crowd applauded both teams after that extraordinary Wallabies-ABs test at Australia Stadium last year. Won by the ABs) For starters, the IRB - or the WRC arm of it - will be calling a lot of the marketing shots. And the ARU, keen to see a fiscal return, will be promoting it across the board - every team, every match. It won't be a one-off War promotion. It simply can't be.

What's more, the bottom line is pretty simple. If any of the Australian crowds make arses of themselves, I'm out of here. It'll be just the excuse I need!

I will watch RWC carefully however to look for jingoistic nonsense.

It depends what you mean by jingoistic nonsense.

I do struggle to accept the Aussie fans will be generous in applauding any team they think capable of beating them?

They will. Right up until the time they meet.

Shall we see if the Wallaby fans are so generous en masse to the ABs on Saturday?

It will depend on how many of our LCD are in the crowd. There wouldn't have been too many in the crowd last time that applauded both teams.

You’ll note I limited this to my own thoughts not those of Jones – I have no problem with Finbar ripping that guy apart (verbally of course).

At least you know how to use the word "fulsome"!

[Caligastia]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Posting in "Havak & Finbar Rugby Thread"

Originally posted by finbar


Phew! What a relief. We can ditch vote-gathering and go straight for the military coup!

by the way, I noticed your link to rugbyheaven, do you ever check out their forums? I sometimes do, and I was thinking of poaching some of their posters by directing them here.

No bigger or smaller than New Zealand's, I'd've thought.

Why would we feel inferior to the "west island" - the worlds largest open air prison...

[Caligastia]

New thread name

Seeing as the peasants here seem to be getting restless, I, as supreme ruler of this thread, have decided to exercise my generous benevolence and allow the common muck to have some input into the name of the new thread.



One rule - posters names cannot be in the thread title.


Here is my idea for the new title:

Rugby - Our balls are bigger than yours.



I got the idea from an ad they show here for the rugby show. They are referring to the gridiron football being smaller than a rugby ball.

Im in no hurry to start a new thread, as this one still has room for 100 or so more posts, but I thought it would be fun for us all to come up with ideas for the new one.

...just kidding about the 'common muck' bit...

[finbar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Posting in "Havak & Finbar Rugby Thread"

Originally posted by Caligastia
by the way, I noticed your link to rugbyheaven, do you ever check out their forums? I sometimes do, and I was thinking of poaching some of their posters by directing them here.

I check out most of those places. I doubt any of them would have the ... patience ... to put up with us.

[Caligastia]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Posting in "Havak & Finbar Rugby Thread"

Originally posted by finbar


I check out most of those places. I doubt any of them would have the ... patience ... to put up with us.

They also dont have the same friendly attitude we do.

After watching bits and pieces of the Bok game through a rather pleasant alcoholic haze , I believe that unless the wobblies address some pieces of their game it will not be a happy night at Homebush for the(vomit) green and (piss yellow) gold.