Rugby - The beautiful game

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin

By the way, I have reached the limit of my reduced knowledge of the anglo-saxon culture, could someone explain me what the "Mr pot, let me introduce mr Kettle" joke means.

I teased you about not having much money left. Obviously, I don't have much money left either, but I didn't acknowledge the fact.

"The pot calling the kettle black" is an English idiom meaning Person A refers to Person B's situation when Person A is in exactly the same situation himself but not acknowledging it. Literally - it's the pot on the stove (which would be black, from the heat) calling the kettle black (from the heat) without acknowledging that it is black itself. I suppose it could be defined as a very mild form of hypocrisy.

ravagon just played around with the expression a bit, making it even more idiomatic, and even more confusing for anyone who doesn't know the expression.

Isn't language a terrific thing?

[Andydog]

Andydog I should give you a red card for mentioning *spit* rugby league, but considering it was a good dig at the aussies Ill award you a penalty try.

Cheers mate, yes it seems I coped a bit of a hammering for that quote by the Aussie posters. I've tried for the last 30 minutes to find the link again, but I'm buggered if I know where I stumbled across it. I will confess that at the time I did think it was breaking news. I've just done a search and found that in fact it happened around March 2000, which was when I was travelling around... wait for it... Italy!!!

Anyway, as I have the opportunity... It is still disgusting you horrible Australian poo pushers!

I'm not sure that a pub is any sort of realistic context. I've never attended one of those sessions and I wouldn't. The booze - and its effects - just gets in the way of watching the game.

You can't be serious? A pub is simply the second best place you could ever hope be to watch a rugby game! Not so much for the alcohol (that comes after the game), but just for the atmosphere and opportunity to take the piss out of the opposition fans during the game! Finbar you'd be in your element.

Havak, I must say to your credit, I've found the English rugby fans to be the most embracing of all toward the opposition fans. After the '99 RWC when NZ beat England in Twickenham, the surrounding pubs were full of disappointed but happy Englishmen, all congratulating the Kiwi supporters on a fine game of rugby. They gave credit where credit was due, and it was a pleasure to drink with them. One or two were even so kind as to offer advice on the local bitters (avoid them at all costs!!)

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
It is still disgusting you horrible Australian poo pushers!

How unlike a Kiwi to be two years behind the times.

[Havak]

do you have that paragraph permanently locked into your Cut/Paste option?

It’s actually etched directly onto my brain.

Because it's simply a different culture. People here tend to go home, win or lose.

I greatly prefer our way.

New Years Eve, New York, 1997, -14 degrees. Blissful.

Not the word I would have chosen!

I really think there's more to this than the dates.

I suspect the hidden involvement of the RFU this end – they dislike O’Neils little games. What possible harm could it have caused the ARU to release this player early??

Sadly it’s the player who suffers as ‘piggy in the middle’.

You realise it's bloody America that's to blame

Not until you mentioned it. You know me, I just naturally blamed the Australians.

"We live at the arse-end of the world".

I can’t help but feel that’s a little harsh

To criticise Australia is un-Australian.

Yes this is an aspect that worried me over there. To disallow criticism of one’s own country can lead down some very dangerous roads indeed. I do wish your countrymen could relax a little more on this front – even saying I didn’t like Tooheys New got me a lecture on the virtues of Australian beer in Sydney – mind you that was from the same lad who when I tried to toast both team captains said “naa mate, not yours – he’s a thug”. Can you picture my reaction to that?

a certain large NH country

Oh Canada is not so bad you know.

Remember Waterloo? Does Battle of Trafalgar ring any bells at all?

How old do you think Tamerlin is?

I don't know what you are speaking about !

And rightly so – we are focused more on the Entente Cordiale are we not?

"The Game They Play In Heaven". How's that for a compromise?

Could you add a rider – you see it sounds a bit Welsh that (Bread of Heaven etc). How about adding (which does not mean Wales) on the end?

Would anyone agree it is very clear Caligastia is lacking the experience of seeing his team lose live?

Come over in November and we will put that right for you – no 12th straight win for you guys.

sentences like this one are coming out of my little mind naturally in a moment's notice.

That they didn’t take long to think of does not reduce their worth at all in my eyes

As I told it earlier, I won't let you down !

Much appreciated – I hope you can catch and evaluate Saturdays game – paying close attention to rucks and mauls?

Isn't language a terrific thing?

I’m actually glad you fielded that one. It’s a weird one.

A pub is simply the second best place you could ever hope be to watch a rugby game! Not so much for the alcohol (that comes after the game), but just for the atmosphere and opportunity to take the piss out of the opposition fans during the game! Finbar you'd be in your element.

I would second that on both counts!

I've found the English rugby fans to be the most embracing of all toward the opposition fans

I’m glad you got to soak up the twickers (and post twickers) atmosphere, it is good isn’t it? I have to be totally fair and say the Irish may just beat us on this one though. The Scots are polite if not friendly post match and the French, if you can persuade them to join in the party, are great fun too. If you catch Wales on a bad day it can be touchy but normally even the valley boys will stay and drink with you around town after losing and there will be very little trouble.

the surrounding pubs were full of disappointed but happy Englishmen, all congratulating the Kiwi supporters on a fine game of rugby. They gave credit where credit was due, and it was a pleasure to drink with them.

It is really hard to get this across to anyone who hasn’t sampled it. Most opposition fans have this picture of English soccer thugs in their mind and the Twickers experience catches them totally by surprise. You do get the odd idiot (generally just aggressive verbals) but one thing I really like about English crowds is we largely police ourselves – opposition fans will find themselves thoroughly protected from such idiots. Long may it continue.

Anyone of you guys could be my guest at Tigers, a fiercely English club (as you may have gathered), and stand on the terrace supping a beer and wagging on about the need for SH talent to teach the boys how to play – and all you would get is friendly banter in return. It’s a precious aspect of rugby to me – I’ll ‘fight’ tooth and claw to keep it that way.

One or two were even so kind as to offer advice on the local bitters (avoid them at all costs!!)

You have no idea what you are missing.

Any and every Englishman will always be happy to offer advice on booze. They say we have a drink problem you know.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
Isn't language a terrific thing?

Yes it is, thanks for the explanation.

If we consider our respective civ financial situations, if one of us is joking about the other we would say in Fance that "It's hospital that is making fun of charity".

"C'est l'hôpital qui se moque de la charité"

[ravagon]

Originally posted by NeoStar
We'll be happy to treat you to a Tooheys after we keep the Bledisloe for yet another year

Australian beer??!! As if the motivation for an AB victory wasn't already there.

Originally posted by Caligastia
Andydog
I should give you a red card for mentioning *spit* rugby league, but considering it was a good dig at the aussies Ill award you a penalty try.

*ahem*
While I hate to be picky (actually its one of my great joys in life ) I think you'll find, after consulting the rules on page (god only knows what), that red cards are to be given out for intelligent statements only.
Andydog's post mentioned RL thereby eliminating that possibility right from word go.

] Originally posted by finbar
Careful, Ravagon, you're treading into SuperSneak territory. Yeah, I know how hurtful that accusation is, and I make no apology for it. Not even a smilie. Well, okay. One.

Ouch. The Andrew Golotta of the rugby thread strikes again.



Is there an updated betting list out yet? I wanted to back the AB's but from reading through this it looks as though that would return about 10% of the stake.
I might have to consider a tactical bet on the *spit* Wabbalies *spit*

[PS: Sorry for the misunderstanding Tamerlin. That comment was made in your defense incidentally. Its funny how it seems to be everybody against finbar and everybody is still outnumbered. ]

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
How old do you think Tamerlin is?

At least 200 years old. But I was a kid at this time and there are things I don't remember very well.

And rightly so – we are focused more on the Entente Cordiale are we not?

Yes, we are.

I’ll ‘fight’ tooth and claw to keep it that way.

So do I, the day the Rugby fans behave like those soccer fools I stop going to the stadium.

There are Policemen around our Stadiums, but they are mainly here to direct the flow of cars heading to the stadium and they don't look as if they were about to prevent someone to make any harm. Some of them even enter the stadium when the game has begun to watch the game, certainly not the crowd.

Someone, I think it's Caligastia, wrote the bad attitude of some Rugby fan can be explained by the fact they have never played Rugby themselves. This is a tricky sentence.

Though I regret it, I've never played rugby myself. My physical build makes me more suitable to play games like Tennis or Volley-ball, two sports I've practiced a lot when I was young at the beginning of the 19th century.

I greew up in a small village (5,000 inhabitants) near Toulouse where Rugby had more to do with a streetfight than a gentlemen's game. The first time, and last one, my father took me to "St-Sulpice's" Rugby field a player was looking at his teeth on the ground with people shouting all around. "St-Sulpice's" has always been more interested in soccer than in Rugby.

My father was born in Béziers (does it mean something to you Havak ? ), a town with a very strong Rugby tradition and a team which dominated the french rugby for a whole decade (in the 80's). I was thus raised in a Rugby atmosphere where the french championship final and the Five Nations Tournament had a kind of holy value.

When I settled in Toulouse, which Rugby tradition can be traced back to the 19th century, I went to the stadium more and more regularly and I have now a season ticket since the 1995-1996 season. The people sitted around me are all old Rugby Fans and some of them have even seen matches before the second world war. Needless to say, It's a real pleasure to hear their comments.

I have always been delighted by the good-natured mood of the rugby crowd and I believe that those that are acting badly are rather people that have not understood the spirit of the game. Of course, understanding the spirit of the game is easier when you have played the game yourself, but does it mean you can't if you have never played the game ?

I don't think so, even if I believe a non-player like me will never have the same vision of the game as a former Rugby player.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I suspect the hidden involvement of the RFU this end – they dislike O’Neils little games. What possible harm could it have caused the ARU to release this player early??

There were a number of players heading off - Connors, Bond, Edmonds, and someone else I can't recall. They were all in the same position with the ARU enforcing the contract. Edmonds is going to France so he doesn't enter into this discussion, but there's no problem with Graham Bond's English contract and he's still here playing out his contract. That's why I think the Bath situation is so odd. Particularly given that the ARU contract situation was perfectly clear months ago. That's the basis of Connors' complaint now, and his talk of legal action. Essentially, Bath, knowing the ARU contract was in place, has now broken the agreement.

Anyway, the reason for enforcing the contracts was pretty simple. If you release one, you have to release them all. Thus what's the point of a contract in the first place? And these aren't bum players. They're all experienced S12 regulars, all with Test experience.

I can’t help but feel that’s a little harsh

You try living here. You've already nailed several of the problems yourself. As in the next paragraph:

Yes this is an aspect that worried me over there. To disallow criticism of one’s own country can lead down some very dangerous roads indeed. I do wish your countrymen could relax a little more on this front – even saying I didn’t like Tooheys New got me a lecture on the virtues of Australian beer in Sydney – mind you that was from the same lad who when I tried to toast both team captains said “naa mate, not yours – he’s a thug”. Can you picture my reaction to that?

How old do you think Tamerlin is?

Regardless of his age, he can't be allowed to forget what your great great great great grandfather did to his great great great great grandfather. Regardless of who started the scrap!

And rightly so – we are focused more on the Entente Cordiale are we not?

*Wellington and Nelson turn from watching The Game They Play In Heaven (home game) and gape, aghast, at each other*

Could you add a rider – you see it sounds a bit Welsh that (Bread of Heaven etc). How about adding (which does not mean Wales) on the end?

How does this sound? Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven (Minus The Western Suburbs Of Chester)?

Would anyone agree it is very clear Caligastia is lacking the experience of seeing his team lose live?

My only thought was that he obviously hadn't been to an ABs match for several years.

That they didn’t take long to think of does not reduce their worth at all in my eyes

*Wellington and Nelson turn up the volume on Poido's and Buddha's commentary*

Anyone of you guys could be my guest at Tigers, a fiercely English club (as you may have gathered), and stand on the terrace supping a beer and wagging on about the need for SH talent to teach the boys how to play – and all you would get is friendly banter in return. It’s a precious aspect of rugby to me – I’ll ‘fight’ tooth and claw to keep it that way.

I must try to get there. When does your season start? I'm trying to con Mrs finbar into another trip later this year.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by ravagon
[PS: Sorry for the misunderstanding Tamerlin. That comment was made in your defense incidentally. Its funny how it seems to be everybody against finbar and everybody is still outnumbered. ]

No problem at all Ravagon, I've never felt myself attacked at any moment.

Posts allowing us to have fun, especially at our own expense, are always welcomed.

By the way, even a 10% gain will be appreciated.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
If we consider our respective civ financial situations, if one of us is joking about the other we would say in Fance that "It's hospital that is making fun of charity".

"C'est l'hôpital qui se moque de la charité"

I love it! And I take careful note of the reflexive verb. And the use of the preposition too.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
Australian beer??!! As if the motivation for an AB victory wasn't already there.

"Good as gold!". (Completely lost on anyone who hasn't been to the South Island of NZ!)

*ahem*
While I hate to be picky (actually its one of my great joys in life ) I think you'll find, after consulting the rules on page (god only knows what), that red cards are to be given out for intelligent statements only.
Andydog's post mentioned RL thereby eliminating that possibility right from word go.

It could be said - not by me, I hasten to add, but by someone who was being less than charitable, which couldn't - by definition - be me - that, in fact, under this thread's Disciplinary Rules, Kiwis are probably pretty safe from red cards.

Ouch. The Andrew Golotta of the rugby thread strikes again.

He resents that!

Is there an updated betting list out yet? I wanted to back the AB's but from reading through this it looks as though that would return about 10% of the stake.
I might have to consider a tactical bet on the *spit* Wabbalies *spit*

I was going to post it in the morning in case LDiCesares, academia or any of our other chums turned up with a bet. But you can back both teams if you like. Currently, 5 out of 5 have backed the ABs for a total of 110 Gold. I'll be backing the Wallabies. I just have to find an electron-microscope with which to find my kitty.

Its funny how it seems to be everybody against finbar and everybody is still outnumbered. ]

Sticks and stones!

[Havak]

a player was looking at his teeth on the ground with people shouting all around

Sounds familiar. This kind of thing does happen in local rugby here as well of course. It’s seldom totally malicious (when it is both the RFU disciplinary process and even the police will be involved) – more a case of fists and faces being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I’ve seen the odd nose flattened in my time (my own is fairly flat though thankfully was never broken)

Béziers (does it mean something to you Havak ?

The name does ring a bell yes.

Needless to say, It's a real pleasure to hear their comments.

I love listening to old timers myself.

but does it mean you can't if you have never played the game ?

Not at all! Rugby is an inclusive sport, and has room for everyone who loves it. Most non-players I speak to get the spirit just fine.

even if I believe a non-player like me will never have the same vision of the game as a former Rugby player.

This is interesting you know, as many players would be fibbing if they said they fully understood the game or could read it fully as a spectator. You pick up certain things for sure, but watching is very different to playing (certainly for a tight forward). I wonder if Finbar and Caligastia were/are backs? Certainly Finbar’s excellent reading of the game suggest he used to have plenty of time to stand around and analyse it

Anyway, the reason for enforcing the contracts was pretty simple. If you release one, you have to release them all.

Okay I have to accept that I think. I was thinking on the wrong lines – that this was an older player not going to be picked again so where was the harm in releasing him. I had not taken on board that doing so would allow Gregan and Larkham to walk up and say “us too”.

You try living here.

It’s the only way to really know I agree.

he can't be allowed to forget what your great great great great grandfather did to his great great great great grandfather

Yes but they hold the ultimate trump card – Hastings.
In addition your line above sadly could apply to Anglo-Aussie history too

How does this sound? Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven (Minus The Western Suburbs Of Chester)?

Perfect!

Damn I’m running out of time (off site this affo)

I must try to get there. When does your season start? I'm trying to con Mrs finbar into another trip later this year.

August 31st.

Let me know if you pull this off and tickets will need to be arranged I think. You can have a word with the club secretary about cultural appropriation.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Andydog


Cheers mate, yes it seems I coped a bit of a hammering for that quote by the Aussie posters. I've tried for the last 30 minutes to find the link again, but I'm buggered if I know where I stumbled across it. I will confess that at the time I did think it was breaking news. I've just done a search and found that in fact it happened around March 2000, which was when I was travelling around... wait for it... Italy!!!

Anyway, as I have the opportunity... It is still disgusting you horrible Australian poo pushers!

Apparently that guy earned the nickname "fingers" for his on-field antics. Can you imagine the unease of his opposition if he came on the field with his fingers taped together?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Would anyone agree it is very clear Caligastia is lacking the experience of seeing his team lose live?

Its not an experience I want to go through...

I have to say that the game I most enjoyed being at was the time we thrashed SA in 97. Back then the aussies were hopeless, and SA was All Black enemy #1. It was a fantastic game to be at. The All Blacks were about 50 points ahead at the half, but took their foot off the gas and let SA catch up by about about 20 points in the second half.

Come over in November and we will put that right for you – no 12th straight win for you guys.

We shall see...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
At least 200 years old. But I was a kid at this time and there are things I don't remember very well.

Only 200? Damn! I was hoping you were around when Marie Antoinette was treading the earth. They say those small champagne glasses were modelled on her ... um ... sein. I was hoping you could vouch for this.

I don't think so, even if I believe a non-player like me will never have the same vision of the game as a former Rugby player.

I don't think you need to have played the game at all. I agree with Havak on this point. Good grief, you only have to listen to some of the ex-player commentators who seem to be watching a different match! I've never played the game. I was, in fact, brought up on Australian Rules. I only discovered this great game about 15 years ago.

I think, perhaps, it's a matter of (a) loving the game; (b) watching a hell of a lot of it; (c) having even just an average level of perception; and (d) always remembering it's a game, which is where I think a lot of other sports have gone wrong.