The Israeli army's daily humiliation of Palestinians

[Alexander's Horse]

I saw a program last night about the situation in the West Bank.

One of the interesting aspects of the program was the evidence of the humiliation of Palestinian civilians by Israeli army soldiers.

The program interviewed several Israeli army reservists, some named with face to camera, and they talked about the ways their units harrass Palestinian civilians trying to go about their daily lives. They said some Israeli army units were notorious for thinking up new ways to abuse Palestinians every day.

Most of the harrassment happens at Israeli army checkpoints. Some of the things they do:

. When they are searching a car, they take the keys away and either throw them away or refuse to give them back, sometimes for hours at a time or not at all.

. They take ID cards and make the Palestinian wait at the checkpoint. Sometimes they don't give the papers back at all, which means the Pal might lose their job in Israel.

. They pick out young Palestinian men, the favorite is to pick out 3 for some reason, and make them do humiliating things like kick each other in the arse, spit on each other or sing Israeli army songs for the amusement of Israeli troops.

One mother of a suicide bomber said that the daily humiliation by Israeli soldiers was what pushed her son over the edge. He couldn't take it any more and blew himself up at the army check point where he had faced daily abuse like the above.

Imagine if you had to put up with that sh*t or watch your mother or father humiliated like that every day.

[Space05us]

ever since I've become more interested in the goings on over there I've been becoming less and less sympathetic to the Isaraelis. reading this makes me understand why some of the people kill other people, but I'll never be sympathetic to the Palestinians as they have already killed too many innocent people out of hate. Im sure the Israelis kill innocent people too, thats one of the reasons Im less sympathetic towards them than I was before.
It's one big mess over there...

[Boris Godunov]

As I have said many times, the "a pox on both your houses" mentality seems to be more and more correct with each passing day.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Space05us
Im sure the Israelis kill innocent people too, thats one of the reasons Im less sympathetic towards them than I was before.

The numbers aren't even close. In terms of killing innocents, the Palestinians are ametuers compared to the Israelis.

[Sirotnikov]

One mother of a suicide bomber said that the daily humiliation by Israeli soldiers was what pushed her son over the edge. He couldn't take it any more and blew himself up at the army check point where he had faced daily abuse like the above.

Of course she also failed to mentioned:

- The encitement in school books against Jews and the western world in General.
- The programming in school books that martyrdom is holy and is the best solution
- The programming in TV shows which glorify martyrdom
- The encitement on TV
- The fact that the PA does not prevent Hamas and Jihad and Fatah from reaching to people's children and sending them to explode
- The fact that the PA seeks out and helps Hamas Jihad and Fatah to reach the children so they could blow up.

The numbers aren't even close. In terms of killing innocents, the Palestinians are ametuers compared to the Israelis

Sure.

When they include all the terrorists in the number of dead, even those that exploded killing innocent Israelis, the numbers grow quite fast.

Another reason is that warfare in civilian territory isn't easy.

I think US and UN know that from a little country in Africa, recently mentioned in a film, don't they.


Furthermore, such abuses happen, and they happen daily.

You'd be surprised but - It's a war. And when there is war there are soldiers. And when there are soldiers - there are always ****heads who like to abuse people.

It doesn't mean that all the soldiers are such, or that this is something which is systematic or regulated from above. It's enough that 10% will be bastard, and they'd have wide enough spread and power.


In any case, there are court marshalls.

For instance, I know that some 100 are in trial procedures over charges of looting and malicious actions in the April incursions. Several dozens are already serving time in prisons.


And all of you people who go "no wonder they explode at street corners" I want to remind of the black liberty movement in America.

Never have they employed terror againt innocent civilians. And they were treated much worse than the Palestinians, since the Palestinians are treated bad since they are seen as a threat. Blacks weren't seen as human at all.

[markusf]

Basically terrorists fighting terrorists. No matter what side you ask its the other sides fault, they won't stop until one side wipes out the other.

[Alexander's Horse]

I think most people would expect better behaviour and discipline from the Israeli army.

The same show said that Israel continues to build new settlements on the West Bank - can you believe that?

The new settlement houses are offered to people at very low prices - less than $10,000 to an Israeli family. Pals of course need not apply.

[Space05us]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Sirotnikov

And all of you people who go "no wonder they explode at street corners" I want to remind of the black liberty movement in America.

Never have they employed terror againt innocent civilians. And they were treated much worse than the Palestinians, since the Palestinians are treated bad since they are seen as a threat. Blacks weren't seen as human at all.

Most people did see them as humans, it was only an ignorant and scared group of people that didn't.

[Sirotnikov]

I think that most people think that war is as sterile as in the movies, and that everyone is mel gibson.

Sorry to break it to you, but jerks and racists exist in Israel as well.

And while the IDF does try to stop it and punish it, due to the special forceful position the soldiers have over the population, some abuse it.

It is however not at all a methodology.

Israel doesn't actually build new settlements but rather expands old ones.

There are private people who bring their trailer homes on a hill or something... but it's not considered a settlement and is not legal.

The new settlement houses are offered at low prices, true. I'm not sure about the figure, but it's true. The price is low because those who live there live in constant threat, and my very possibly be uprooted in a future agreement.


As for pals applying -
a) they usually build their own houses on adjustant hills.
b) they are palestinians rather than israeli citizens. you'd have a case for racism (which you are aching to get) if , say, an israeli arab was applying for it, and wouldn't be accepted.

but that won't happen.

a) israeli arabs, while supportive of palestinians, do not like them. they see them as extreme, crazy and barbaric. the palestinian society is decades behind the israeli arab society, both society and politics wise.

b) in a future agreement, the israeli arabs living there may very well find themselves palestinian citizens, which they don't want. they enjoy the better job opportunities in israel, and the much less corrupt, though biased towards large cities, israeli system.

c) they might move in, but they sure might not feel welcome if their neighbours are extremist jews.

[Sirotnikov]

Most people did see them as humans, it was only an ignorant and scared group of people that didn't.

depends when.

Only in the 19th century were they began to be seen as humans, though not citizens, and only in the latter half, did they become citizens.

In any case, it's not as if they lived in prosperity and love.

The Palestinains here, many worked in Israel and many Israelis began coming to the territories for products or services, which were cheaper.

There aren't any 'no palestinians allowed' restaurants, though such attitudes may exist in certain places, among extreme right wingers.

But then again, I'm sure there are still places in america where a black, or hispanic or jewish person will be treated 'unpleasantly'.

[Alexander's Horse]

This program was done by Australians and the Israeli reservists were really complaining about some of the stuff they saw their fellow soldiers doing - which reinforces Siro's point about not everyone is doing it.

But taking away people's ID card, which they need for work, just out of spite can really make people hate you.

[CyberGnu]

So, siro, you are accepting partial responsibility for the suicide bombers now? Well, at least a step forward. Now if we can get it past the propaganda wall in your head that it doesn''t matter how much Hamas glorifies the death of a martyr, without this humiliation and lack of hope there only a very very few weakminded weirdos would fall for it...

There is hope for you yet. You too can become a decent human being.

[Ned]

If anyone would like to try this, take ten people, divide them up into two groups, and call one group guards and the other group prisoners. Invent some tasks to be performed, some privileges for the prisoners that can be denied, and some form of punishment for misbehavior. You will quickly find that the average guard will become quite petty, arbitrary and abusive.

[CyberGnu]

And the prisoners become resentful, angry and eventully violent.

I see your point, both sides might be victims in this, but isn't it just one more reason why we should all work to end the occupation?

[aaglo]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Of course she also failed to mentioned:

- The encitement in school books against Jews and the western world in General.
- The programming in school books that martyrdom is holy and is the best solution
- The programming in TV shows which glorify martyrdom
- The encitement on TV
- The fact that the PA does not prevent Hamas and Jihad and Fatah from reaching to people's children and sending them to explode
- The fact that the PA seeks out and helps Hamas Jihad and Fatah to reach the children so they could blow up.

Okay, these facts do not glorify or justify the acts of israeli soldiers.

I've seen a similar program about the situation in Middle-east. As an outsider it seems that both parties are being brainwashed. Palestinians are being seduced to suicide-bombing. All Israelis are convinced, that all Palestinians are crazy and evil. It's a screwed situation.

IIRC, even somewhere in the bible it is said, that there will never be peace in the land of David. There brother will allways fight against his brother... or something like that...