Race mixing

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by GP
Ting,

It's not a big concern to me. But if we need a filter, this might be one. Basically would be a "lighter version" of the citizenry test that we give. Also, for those people who do worry about Balkanization (perhaps they feel the melting pot is less effective...been replaced by a salad bowl or whatever), than this would be a more direct way to address those concerns and would not be ethnically based (as country quotas are.)

I agree. There's nothing wrong with creating a language requirement for immigration. Although for family re-unification and refugees, it is a different matter.

[problem_child]

Originally posted by Aeson


A big part of this discussion is about immigration laws and how they affect society. I think you can see the effect humans have on those?

yeah but in the long run people migrate anyway- thats what we do, why do you think we have the long legs huh? policy making to stop or encourage immigration is like trying to stop a desert from moving windward, sure you can slow it down or something- but the same tendancy that bought Native Americans to the Americas in the first place from Asia will continue to do its thing.

Are you saying the current administration will have an effect on who migrates to America or anywhere else in 150 years time? thats the least amount of time you have to think in terms of for these things if your talking about more then just 'this part of town' or 'that part of town' or 'the ghetto' or 'the more affluent part of town' etc.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by problem_child
Are you saying the current administration will have an effect on who migrates to America or anywhere else in 150 years time?

No. I'm saying that if we have racially biased legislation, it reinforces racial bias in our population while it is in effect. That time period could be a few years or a few centuries. It doesn't have anything to do with which administration passes that legislation.

To claim humans (and their ideas) have no effect on society is unrealistic. A good idea can last and have profound effects on future generations. So can a bad one. How can you say it doesn't matter what we do?

No human political system has lasted even three thousand years (thats including religions) what hope does some American immigration policy, political correctness or 'racist' world-view have of facing out the hundreds of thousands of years it takes a race to come into existance- None.

From a biological standpoint humans can make a huge impact in a very short amount of time. You pointed to Hitler's failure to carry out his plans as a reason to not care about racism? Luckily most genocides have been thwarted, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't guard ourselves from having it happen again.

In science we are getting pretty close to being able to genetically engineer people. It won't be long before humans have the ability to drastically alter the species biologically. Don't you worry that how this ability is handled could be influenced by racial motivations?

[Clear Skies]

I'm sure some religions have lasted more than three thousand years...Taoism? Zoroastrianism?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Tingkai
4) You think that racism is the fault of immigratants rather than racists.

You mean this is what he stated or implied??

That's just great.

[Caligastia]

I implied that racism is exacerbated by immigration policies not that its immigrants fault. As usual Tingkai distorts my words. Why dont you read what I said for yourself MrFun instead of just taking his word for it.

[TCO]

You could say that desegragation inflamed racism with a very parallel argument...

[Aeson]

Which is why pandering to racists is not something that the government should try to do.

[Caligastia]

Yeah, but I am in favor of desegragation. If the people are already here you have to give them the same rights as others, but people who are still in other countries should come second to US citizens.

[Aeson]

It just sounds like you are trying to protect a white majority. What about the minority groups that already feel threatened by that majority, and would feel more threatened if it was locked in place? Would you be advocating the same thing if the government decided we would have a chinese majority, and used immigration to keep any racist chinese citizens of the US feeling unintimidated?

Most people in the US aren't racist though, at least I hope not. I admit that I felt a bit uncomfortable my first time in an integrated environment. It was kindergarten and it took about 5 minutes to get over. The sooner it happens, the easier it is to get over.

but people who are still in other countries should come second to US citizens.

I think this is a bad idea. The constitution says "all men are created equal", not "all US citizens are created equal". I admit that completely free immigration might not be in the best interests of anyone, foriegn or domestic. It's an economic reasoning though, as our economy probably could not support the vast influx of population. Thus it needs to be limited somehow, but race should have nothing to do with it, and isn't the reason for the necessary limits either.

[Caligastia]

ok, well I guess the only way to know the answer to my question for sure is to wait and see...

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Aeson
I think this is a bad idea. The constitution says "all men are created equal", not "all US citizens are created equal". I admit that completely free immigration might not be in the best interests of anyone, foriegn or domestic. It's an economic reasoning though, as our economy probably could not support the vast influx of population. Thus it needs to be limited somehow, but race should have nothing to do with it, and isn't the reason for the necessary limits either.

The Constitution does NOT say that. Thats the Declaration of Independence which is not a legal document. It was largely written by someone that obviously did not believe it. Slaveowners are not people that think men are created equal so that leaves Jefferson as a hypocrite when he wrote that. Brilliant man but a hypocrite. He clearly thought ALL WHITE MALES are created equal and maybe only if they own land.

Unlimited immigration is a realy bad idea. There are too damn many people in California all ready and a VERY large percentage of immigrants legal and illegal come here. I want ZPG and I want it twenty years ago. California has too many Congressmen allready.

[Aeson]

Sorry, I get the two confused sometimes. It still isn't a good idea to view people born inside the US somehow superior or more worthy to those who aren't. Nationalistic elitism is every bit as bad as racial elitism.

I agree that unlimited immigration just wouldn't work.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Aeson
Nationalistic elitism is every bit as bad as racial elitism.

In a way it is. Its the best weve got at the moment though. Humanity is slowly evolving its concept of brotherhood to include larger and larger groups. When we finally recognise that all men and women are brothers and sisters the evolution will be complete.

This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace.

[Aeson]

There are people who can see past nationality. It definitely isn't the best perspective we have. It's just a common one.