Unspoken black/white segregation: Choice or societal structure?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Sikander, I was a member of the Black Student club at my college, and it's treasurer my junior year was a white Jew. Their mission was to promote fellowship among Black students, yes, but not at the exclusion of whites. All races were clearly welcomed. The group focused on promoting African-American speakers on campus, holding forums for issues concerning race and civil rights, and acting as an advocate for Black students who felt they had been discriminated against.

The impact of this group was, IMO, overwhelmingly positive. It was not divisive at all. The only people who had a problem with it were the rednecks who used the "n" word to refer the African Americans anyway. Your equating such a group to Nazis is outrageously wrong and offensive. I don't think you have a clue what most Black Student groups do. Go sit in on some meetings at a few campuses.

In my defense I didn't equate the two. I said that a group called "Jews for Hitler" would worry me as much as any other pro-nazi group, just as the fact that I am here arguing with mostly white people about the usefullness of ethnically based organizations worries me. It's not the purported purposes or the actual actions (as always, all apologies for the aliteration) of these groups that worries me the most, it's the fact that they are so effective at perpetuating the subdivision of our society along racial and ethnic lines. The government is just as bad, with its insistence on counting everyone in the census by squeezing them into a few pat racial categories. We need to stop identifying ourselves as members of these groups, and keep our eyes on the bigger picture, which counter-intuitively lies inside of ourselves.

I will state that groups which promote racial identity are often very different from one another. I am aware of the crimes of the KKK and the Nazis, and these groups only share one trait with the other groups who are racially based. IMO that trait is insidious and dangerous, and while the threat from Nazis and Clansmen is receding, I cannot say the same for the impact of other generally decent and law abiding groups who nonetheless do their part to keep America above all, race conscious.

[Lincoln]

For my 2 cents, I tend to agree with Sikander. I had a conversation with an old black man in New York once and he taught me a few things about racism. He said that people usually get along fine but there are always the 'leaders' who stir up anamosity by stressing differences between the races. When people stop seeing themselves as black or white or whatever then we will have made some progress. In the mean time, birds of a feather flock together. That is human nature and people ought to be free to associate of disassociate as they please.

[moomin]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
And again, this just shows what a close-minded idiot you're being about it.

Bah. You're far from best on this board to display dazzlin' shows of vulgarity and profanity, so you'd be best advised to refrain. It's when you actually try to make a point that your readable. Enough of the "you're a moron"-spewing roboposters who think this amounts to a scathing display of wit already. Mind your own signature.

I have read books about the nefarious people of history, like Hitler, Stalin, etc. Understanding them means reading about them.

Pehaps I gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to read about crooks, lunatics and butchers. That's not to unusal - witness the endless fascination mass murder shows seem to supply to the audiences. Nevertheless I respectfully suggest you delude yourself if you think you've reached a deeper understanding of, well, of just about anything reading about people like Hitler and Stalin. The basic dictatorical pattern is simple enough; a charismatic leader promising easy solutions (and finding someone else to blame, preferably), a people who nurture their sense of unfullfiled entitlement and enough turmoil to throw doubts over the sustainablilty of the current system. It's been the same since the French revolution, and I haven't seen any interesting deviations yet. MX fits in this patter just fine, except he chose the wrong interest to push and circumstances didn't work out his way. Nothin' to see here, folks, circulate.
[/QUOTE]

You don't understand MX, you're making assumptions out of your posterior about who he was and what he said. You then start ranting about how it doesn't behoove you to learn anything about them. What a crock of horse****.

Yes, BG, we know you're in touch with your vocabulary. That's... sophisticated. Well, then, why don't you educate me? Show me pointers to confirm that MX either a) didn't claim all whites were devils or b) actually retracted and deplored that racist bull publicly when and if he actually grew up to a better apporxiamtion of a decent human being.

If you can't, I'm afraid I don't give a damn about understanding him anyway.

Reading a bio on X isn't going to brainwash you...are you afraid your mind is too weak to withstand such a thing? I even read Mein Kampf, and it certainly didn't in any way make me kinder towards Hitler. But it did give me a little insight into who he was and why he did what he did.

Fine, if that's your trip. I'm not especially interested in reading about purveyors of hate, be it rasist, ideological or religeous. I don't particulary strive to be given "insights" to what particular delusion made their clocks tick. Recognizing the pattern and being able to apply it is far more important, and often sadly lacking among those who spend most of their time seraching for various insights.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Lincoln
For my 2 cents, I tend to agree with Sikander. I had a conversation with an old black man in New York once and he taught me a few things about racism. He said that people usually get along fine but there are always the 'leaders' who stir up anamosity by stressing differences between the races. When people stop seeing themselves as black or white or whatever then we will have made some progress. In the mean time, birds of a feather flock together. That is human nature and people ought to be free to associate of disassociate as they please.

Wow -- I'm so glad that you found a single black person that represents the entire black society of United States. Congratulations!!


But back to reality --- I am very glad that civil rights activists and their leaders did what they did during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950's and 1960's --- both, black and white civil rights leaders.

[orange]

Originally posted by MrFun
Wow -- I'm so glad that you found a single black person that represents the entire black society of United States. Congratulations!!

:whine whine whine: Strawman argument you assume he believes that one black man in new york represents all African Americans :whine whine whine: slippery slope :blah blah blah: :whine whine whine: [/MrFun mode]

You're such a hypocrite. You do the same things you whine about. He posted something from experience, and what do you do? Shove it back in his face for being 'unworthy' of recognition. You're the only one that ought to be ashamed of his posting, MrFun.

[Ned]

Orange, For what it's worth, I had virtualy the same experiences and observations you did 30 years ago. I even had a best friend who was black after college. He did not want to come to my parties and he never invited me to one of his. Go figure. He said he would be uncomfortable. He knew his fellow blacks would be uncomfortable with me.

Since this same pattern has gone on for so long, I doubt it will change anytime soon.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by orange


:whine whine whine: Strawman argument you assume he believes that one black man in new york represents all African Americans :whine whine whine: slippery slope :blah blah blah: :whine whine whine: [/MrFun mode]

You're such a hypocrite. You do the same things you whine about. He posted something from experience, and what do you do? Shove it back in his face for being 'unworthy' of recognition. You're the only one that ought to be ashamed of his posting, MrFun.

I figured if I can't beat the hypocrite crowd on Apolyton, I might as well join them.

Anyway, I will throw away that straw man argument while you guys continue to use straw man arguments.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lincoln
For my 2 cents, I tend to agree with Sikander. I had a conversation with an old black man in New York once and he taught me a few things about racism. He said that people usually get along fine but there are always the 'leaders' who stir up anamosity by stressing differences between the races.

It's true. Blacks and whites got along fine under slavery and under segregation until "outside agitators" began pointing out that this is not how human beings should live. If only those darned "leaders" hadn't stirred Black people up to demand their rights.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lincoln
For my 2 cents, I tend to agree with Sikander. I had a conversation with an old black man in New York once and he taught me a few things about racism. He said that people usually get along fine but there are always the 'leaders' who stir up anamosity by stressing differences between the races.

Without racial animosity the "reverends" Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson wouldnt have jobs.

[MrFun]

Thanks for backing up what I said, Chegitz.

[Caligastia]

Why wouldnt he? Youre both loony.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Why wouldnt he? Youre both loony.

Hey, watch it -- I have argued with you throughout, without labeling you as a racist!



And if you seriously cannot understand the slave revolts, and the Civil Rights movement, then I see no real reason to continue arguing with you.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by MrFun


Hey, watch it -- I have argued with you throughout, without labeling you as a racist!

Well I do have to give you credit for that.

And if you seriously cannot understand the slave revolts, and the Civil Rights movement, then I see no real reason to continue arguing with you.

For a gay guy youre awfully serious MrFun, and considering you didnt know who ABBA were I have to ask....are you a closet heterosexual?

[MrFun]

Stop dodging my premise.

You really do not see any legitimacy in slave revolts, and the Civil Rights movement, do you??

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by MrFun
Stop dodging my premise.

You really do not see any legitimacy in slave revolts, and the Civil Rights movement, do you??

Jeeez! Of course I do!

Take a chill pill Fun!

You are Fun, dont ever change your name ok? Its so apt!