Bisexual?

[Asher]

Originally posted by MrFun
But still, let's follow this logic:

1) If you're white, black, or Hispanic, and you prefer to only date someone of your own race, you're a racist.
2) If you're a Christian and you prefer to only marry another Christian of the same denomination, then you're religiously bigoted.
3) If you're Christian, and you prefer to not marry any Jew, then you're anti-semitic.
4) And lastly, if you're heterosexual or homosexual, and prefer not to have a monogamous union with a bisexual, then you hate bisexuals.

Once again, I've never used the term racist.
I've never used the term bigot.
I've never used anti-semetic.
I've never used the word hate.

If people feel they can't date someone BECAUSE they're bisexual they obviously do have SOMETHING against that. That much is obvious. Whether it's a conscious thing or subconscious thing depends on the purpose I guess.

[MrFun]

Ok, Asher.

I'm now open to the future possibility that I might meet a bisexual man who I would prefer to have a monogamous relationship with.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun


But I DO associate with bisexuals on friendly terms in all other aspects.

And I would hate to lose your respect because of this.

If that happens, it is his problem, not yours. You don't have to change your beliefs to accomodate knee-jerk finger-pointers. If people can't disagree with civility, then best not to waste too much time worrying about their opinions.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I do urge you to consider, because you just seem to have no founding for your prejudice. And it is a prejudice. After all, if I was never vocal about it, yet still hated all homosexuals and wouldn't associate with them, would that still make me prejudiced?

For the last times, stop going to extremes. Not wanting to date someone is not the same as hating them. We're not talking about hating anyone. We're talking about someone's personal desire about whom they do and do not date.

You go and date a gay man for a few months, and then come back to us about how close-minded we are on the issue.

[Asher]

Boris, it's okay to admit you've got something against bisexuals, because everyone knows it but you.

Maybe it's buried so deep inside your subconscious you don't want to see it?

If you truly and honestly didn't have any problem with bisexuals you'd truly and honestly have no issues with dating them.

Sure it's a personal desire, and sure you have every right to think that, but don't go walking around stating you don't have any problems with them because you sure as hell don't think they're worthy of you dating them.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Kamrat X


I´d say that YES, not having a relationship with a person cause he/she´s black/white/yellow/whatever IS racist. Maybe sub-conscious but still racist.

The same applies to homo/bi relationships IMO. I´m with Asher and PH on this one.

You are simply wrong. By and large, races all have distinguishing physical characteristics that some people of different races simply don't find attractive. It has nothing to do with being racist, it's about attraction. Would you date someone you just weren't attracted to? And are you attracted to all races equally?

The fact is, I don't find men of Indian descent attractive. It is a personal preference of mine, and I can't help it...it's just the way my attraction is, the same way some people like fuller figures or they like slender figures. But I am certainly not racist against Indians, as I have many dear Indian friends. I'm also not attracted to men who are over 40. Does that make me ageist? Are you all attracted to all ages equally? I hope not.

There are, also, other reasons why I wouldn't date anyone over 35. You can pretty much guess what those are, but it gets summed up by this...personal compatibility.

I also won't date strongly conservative types. Guess I must be bigoted against them, too.

The same applies to homo/bi relationships IMO. I´m with Asher and PH on this one.

What about hetero/bi? Or do you have a double standard there?

Mantra: If you support the right for someone to date whomever they choose, it is 100% hypocritical to comdemn them for NOT dating whomever they choose.

[Asher]

Boris: Nobody is perfect, and you stating that you won't date someone because of race and if they're bisexual is a shining example.

It's not exactly abnormal, but I expected more from you, being a so called "liberal free thinker".

And I'm not condemning you -- I'm calling you out on being shallow. Most guys are shallow anyway, it's not like it's anything new.

Although I do have a lot less respect for you now than before.

[MrFun]

This is not what we need right now with Gay Pride events occurring soon around the world.

This should be about gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and heterosexuals coming together to affirm the legitimacy of all these sexual orientations.

Not create a bitter division between gays and bisexuals on Apolyton.

Boris -- Asher, Provost, and the others are probably right in this case, which is why I am now open to the possibility that my dream man might someday be a bisexual man rather than a gay man.

Let's get to the positive affirmation and unity of Gay Pride this year on Apolyton.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun
This is not what we need right now with Gay Pride events occurring soon around the world.

This should be about gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and heterosexuals coming together to affirm the legitimacy of all these sexual orientations.

Not create a bitter division between gays and bisexuals on Apolyton.

Boris -- Asher, Provost, and the others are probably right in this case, which is why I am now open to the possibility that my dream man might someday be a bisexual man rather than a gay man.

Let's get to the positive affirmation and unity of Gay Pride this year on Apolyton.

There is nothing positive or affirming in being shouted down for one's own dating choices. It is romantic Fascism, and antithetical to everything Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual pride is all about. There is absolutely nothing that delegitimizes bisexuals by someone choosing not to date one. They and now you are not right about this, as condemning others for whom they do or do not date is wrong. Period.

I am not condeming your reassessment of your beliefs...most likely, you did not have a strong opinion about it before. That's fine, and that's your choice. But the issue here is not whether me, you or anyone does or does not want to date a bisexual. It is about being excorciated, unjustly, for making choices in whom you do and don't date. The same argument used here can be applied to all manner of choices, and then you will find yourself being damned for whatever choices you make in dating. Don't want to date that bucktoothed, chain-smoking bald guy with halitosis? You bigot, you.

If I'm supposed to somehow bear this kind of hypocrisy in silence in deference to Gay Pride, then I say Gay Pride has lost, as clearly the values of self-determination that are at its core have vanished.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
There is nothing positive or affirming in being shouted down for one's own dating choices.

Then I suggest you don't bring them up, because it ruins your whole liberal free-thinking attitude when you come up and state you won't date _________ minorities without even knowing the person behind the minority mask.

And then you actually call everyone else hypocrites. Honestly, Boris, I think you've been in my stash.

(And once again, Boris, you're the only one around here using words like bigot)

[monkspider]

I must once again agree with Boris on this one, It's simply a matter of exercising romantic preference, and with no sinister intentions up our sleeves. Saying that one should have no degree of sexual or romantic preference whatsoever is completely silly. I don't want to date a girl that's a smoker, I don't want to date a redhead, and I don't want to date a girl that's bisexual, and not because I think they are morally wrong or anything of that nature, but I I don't wanna date them simply because I don't wanna.
Like someone said earlier in this thread, these things may seem trivial at first glace, but out of a possibilty of several billion possible partners, they start to matter a bit more when picking a lifelong significant other.

[Asher]

I must once again agree with Boris on this one, It's simply a matter of exercising romantic preference, and with no sinister intentions up our sleeves.

I must once again remind you and Boris that nobody said you had sinister intentions.

Saying that one should have no degree of sexual or romantic preference whatsoever is completely silly.

Nobody has said that.

I don't want to date a girl that's a smoker, I don't want to date a redhead, and I don't want to date a girl that's bisexual, and not because I think they are morally wrong or anything of that nature, but I I don't wanna date them simply because I don't wanna.

This is where you're being shallow. But you have every right to be shallow, and that is your preference, but that doesn't stop it from being shallow.

Not dating someone because they're bisexual is like not dating someone simply because they're black. It's something I would never discriminate about myself, but if you want to judge people based upon their bisexuality as being not good enough for you to date, so be it.

[green_athena]

late arrival

Originally posted by MrFun
Exactly, Provost -- but the original topic was bisexuality.

Who believes in the theory that we are all fundamentally bisexual? What are good sources to read about this theory?

I've considered that theory and finally fell in the "possibly true" side. I mean, males have a need for male companionship, and females for females, whether or not it has anything to do with sex. So maybe a "straight" male is just closer to the 2% male/98% female-likes barrier.
Would not say definitively true, because who the hell am *I* to know?

As for sexuality/bisexuality --- despite common misperception, sexuality has Nothing to do with who you happen to be with _At The Moment_. Sexuality has to do with who you have the *ability* to be attracted to. A bisexual male can marry a woman, be exclusively with that woman, and yet still be bisexual. It's just something that you ARE ...based on who you are attracted to, not who you're with at any given time.

This is why the Willow-thing on Buffy drives me nuts. I love the show. But no, Willow is not "gay". Willlow is quite clearly bisexual. It's very irritating and slightly offensive to a bi to have her constantly referred to as gay.
To say someone is Gay, when they are Bi ...cuts off an entire half of the homo species they could be attracted to. I'm Bi and it offends me. It's not that being called gay has anything inherently wrong with it, if I were gay that would be good. However, to call me gay suddenly says I can't find Brad Pitt attractive. But...wait...the man *is* attractive ... see my point?

And yes, here in the U.S., the existance of bisexuality is largely ignored. I keep waiting ...keep waiting...those blessed 90's gave us (as a culture) more tolerance in general for being gay (see: "in general"). ...and bisexuality was at least *mensioned* a few places in pop culture here and there.... so I keep hoping...hoping someone will open up the can and get Bisexual out into our media.

In some ways I am very envious of you there in Europe -- because while you may get divulged with our media, you at least also get your own and that of some nearby places. You have a clear choice. We almost exclusively get drowned in our own (which, of course, is filled with your actors . The most we get with some ease is the BBCA. My roommate pays $25 extra a month on our tv bill just to get ONE channel broadcast from Tokyo. But that's getting seriously off-subject (sorry).

I smashed into Adolescence in the 80's (before those wonderfully liberal 90's), in a place where the term "Bisexual" was not even heard of. As In: it was nowhere in our media, in our mouths, in our minds. Never heard of its possibility. I was taught you are either Straight or you are Gay and you _ARE Straight_.
So I was doubly confused. For the first.. maybe year.. of realizing I was Bi (due to landing myself in a more liberal and excepting atmosphere) ..I considered it a horrible curse. Bi's here are often hated/resented by BOTH the straight AND gay communities ... so I was thinking "oh, great ...Here! Here I AM!! (waves hands up in the air)
Hey ...I'm over here ...hate *me* please ...." yeah like that's something anyone actually healthily would _want_ in their life. However, thankfully I got over that it's-a-curse thinking because the way I see it now, I am surely blessed to understand both the beauty of (for instance) Ewan McGregor AND Nicole Kidman --watching "Moulin Rouge" is a 200%-awestuck experience. I am Right There with Kidman's character woo'd by Ewan...and Right There with Ewan woo'd by Kidman. heh heh. Nifty blessing.

Okay. Out of breath for my own windiness now ...so whatever else I may have to say, I'm going to cut this now. Thanks for the mindchew.

[MrFun]

Green, thanks for your comments.

interesting

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well... I consider it'd be painful around some body parts as well .

I'm just glad no male here shaves their entire body from neck down.

"Ah, there's nothing like a shorn scrotum!"