What are the most powerful and influential countries?

[Heresson]

"Oh, man. I've never laugh so hard. '
founded by the Vikings 1100 years ago'?
You think that we are decendance of
Vikings?"

This site is fool of historical ignorants. But it's You the one to be laughed at at this point.

"it's really strange claim, considering that we always speak on Russian language but not on language of Vikings. "

idiotic arguement.
Bulgaria was founded by Turkish Bulgarians and Bulgarians aren's speaking their language now.

"It was never conquered by Vikings"

But it was founded by them


"Polish 'panovy' were sure nice guys and
mercyfull masters. "

Not worse than Russians. Anyway, they weren's quite Polish. Note; Cossacks were ukrainised Poles. Feudls of Ukraine were polonised Ukrainians.

"So, if Russian Empire is so terrible then
why Bogdan Hemelnitsky choosed to join
Russia? Perhaps, because it was much
better alternative then to be under Polish
or Turkey rule."

Chmielnicki, of Polish origin in fact,
turned to Russia only after 6 years of rebellion, when he lost any hopes for
some compromise with Poland. Cossack emissaries were saying they feel a part of the Republic.

"Yep.
But, I guess later they regreted about this
invasion. (When we kicked their asses). "

You just took back your capital. It didn't help You to loose several next battles and Czernichow, Smole?sk and Siewierz at this time. It was us that won that war.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
This site is fool of historical ignorants. But it's You the one to be laughed at at this point.

You are Number 2 then.

idiotic arguement.
Bulgaria was founded by Turkish Bulgarians and Bulgarians aren's speaking their language now.

So, what?
Today we are not speaking on language of ancient Slavs too, the language is changed during centuries, but of course it has no Vikings roots. Some Viking influence (as well as influence of languages of other our neighbors) may be, but not roots. Russian language as well as Ukrainian, Belarusian and Polish languages is belonging to group of Slav's languages, not to group of Scandinavian languages.

But it was founded by them

Bullsh!t. This “Normandic” theory was crushed in 70s.

Not worse than Russians. Anyway, they weren's quite Polish. Note; Cossacks were ukrainised Poles. Feudls of Ukraine were polonised Ukrainians.

If they decided to join Russian Empire instead of Poland then Russians were better.

Chmielnicki, of Polish origin in fact, turned to Russia only after 6 years of rebellion, when he lost any hopes for some compromise with Poland. Cossack emissaries were saying they feel a part of the Republic.

So what, it changes nothing. The fact is that he turned to Russia, and WE lived in one state with Ukranians since 1654 until 1991, not Poles.

You just took back your capital. It didn't help You to loose several next battles and Czernichow, Smole?sk and Siewierz at this time. It was us that won that war.

Oh really?
Perhaps that's why Chernigov and Smolensk (btw, very old Russian cities founded in times of Kiev's Rus) are Russian cities now, not Polish. I don't know what you mean by "Siewierz", but it does not matter really, we returned everything you took and later made your country a province of our empire. You might win battles (like Napoleon and Hitler), but in perspective we always win wars.

[Heresson]

So, what?
Today we are not speaking on language of ancient Slavs too, the language is changed during centuries, but of course it has no Vikings roots. Some Viking influence (as well as influence of languages of other our neighbors) may be, but not roots. Russian language as well as Ukrainian, Belarusian and Polish languages is belonging to group of Slav's languages, not to group of Scandinavian languages.

Which doesn't change the fact that your state was viking in its roots.

Bullsh!t. This ?Normandic? theory was crushed in 70s.

That's what Russians think

If they decided to join Russian Empire instead of Poland then Russians were better.

Really? What Katherine II did to Cossacks?

So what, it changes nothing. The fact is that he turned to Russia, and WE lived in one state with Ukranians since 1654 until 1991, not Poles.

We lived in one state too. Only half of Ukraine was ceded to Russia after Andruszow cease-fire. Even later, after the partages, we lived in one state too.

Oh really?
Perhaps that's why Chernigov and Smolensk (btw, very old Russian cities founded in times of Kiev's Rus) are Russian cities now, not Polish. I don't know what you mean by "Siewierz", but it does not matter really, we returned everything you took and later made your country a province of our empire. You might win battles (like Napoleon and Hitler), but in perspective we always win wars.

You never had all Poland. And defeated us only with help of Austria and Prussia. And note; during Polish-Russian war 1830-1831
when You fighted alone or after ww1 You were so hopeless against Poland, much smaller. You won in year 181, true, but it's just like with Tchechenia- that You will win it was obvious from the start. You just have won in a quite hopeless way. I's like a human would fight with a fly and return of this fight without a leg and an arm...

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson

Which doesn't change the fact that your state was viking in its roots.

Really? May be you prove your claims with facts? Give my just one, single prove that Kiev was founded by Vikings. The thing that people who lived in Kiev's Rus talking on Slav's language, but not on Scandinavian dialects proves a lot. Why everyone spoke on Slav's language in Kiev's Rus if it was founded by Vikings, who by definition speak on Scandinavian language?

That's what Russians think

Not only Russians. The major ideologue of "Normandic" theory (Don't remember his name) in 1960 in Stogholm said that “Normanism” is dead.

Really? What Katherine II did to Cossacks?

What do you mean?

We lived in one state too. Only half of Ukraine was ceded to Russia after Andruszow cease-fire. Even later, after the partages, we lived in one state too.

I don't know what you want to prove by that. Let me guess perhaps you think that Ukrainians are ethnic group of Poland?

You never had all Poland. And defeated us only with help of Austria and Prussia. And note; during Polish-Russian war 1830-1831

I know about that, Poland was divided between 3 countries.

when You fighted alone or after ww1 You were so hopeless against Poland, much smaller. You won in year 181, true, but it's just like with Tchechenia- that You will win it was obvious from the start. You just have won in a quite hopeless way. I's like a human would fight with a fly and return of this fight without a leg and an arm...

Hopeless? That's why Poland (Ok, part of Poland) was a province of Russian Empire for about 100 years; you took freedom only because of Bolsheviks and Bolshevik's revolution.
After WW1?
I don't see how we were hopeless. After Bolshevik’s revolution gave freedom to you, you attacked Russia with company of 13 other foreign invaders and all this during terrible Russian civil war.
Hopeless warriors? My ass.
Do you have any example that any other country resisted and survived intervention of 14 foreign countries at once and all this during Civil war, which means that big part of population fought on invader's side?
Of course you might say that Poland took part of Russian territory during intervention, but Stalin returned those lands in 1939.


P.S. I don’t see any logic in your claims. First you said that Poland was a huge Empire a quote from you-

“On the west, Poland got as far as Elbe river.
On the south, as far as Donau , on the east
to Black Sea and Volga.
Parts of;
Germany, Russia, Austria
belonged to Poland for some time.
All/almost all of;
Czech Rep, Slovakia, Ukraine, Moldavia,
(Romania), Byelorussia, Lithuania, latvia,
Estonia belonged to Poland for a shorter or longer time.”

then you said that Poland is like a fly in compare with Russia. Can you explain your logic?

[Heresson]

Really? May be you prove your claims with facts? Give my just one, single prove that Kiev was founded by Vikings.

Kiev wasn't, but princedom of Rurykowicze was.


The thing that people who lived in Kiev's Rus talking on Slav's language, but not on Scandinavian dialects proves a lot. Why everyone spoke on Slav's language in Kiev's Rus if it was founded by Vikings, who by definition speak on Scandinavian language?

Again, I summon Bulgarian example.


Not only Russians. The major ideologue of "Normandic" theory (Don't remember his name) in 1960 in Stogholm said that ?Normanism? is dead.

It is commonly known that Ruryk was Scandinavian. Even name "Rus" is of Scandinavian origin though deformated and means
sth like "a team".


I don't know what you want to prove by that. Let me guess perhaps you think that Ukrainians are ethnic group of Poland?

No, just that that if two nations live in one state it doesn't mean they are one nation.

Hopeless? That's why Poland (Ok, part of Poland) was a province of Russian Empire for about 100 years;

You kept it with biggest effort and only with help of other states involved in Polish matters.

you took freedom only because of Bolsheviks and Bolshevik's revolution.

Bolsheviks were much more dangerous than old and pathethic tzarate.

I don't see how we were hopeless. After Bolshevik?s revolution gave freedom to you,

I guess Trocki and Stalin were marching on Warsaw to hand it over to us...

you attacked Russia

No, Russia attacked us.

with company of 13 other foreign invaders and all this during terrible Russian civil war.

Poland was in even worse situation than Russia. And it managed to defeat You.

Hopeless warriors? My ass.

You couldn't anect much smaller Poland or Finland by yourselves. You have no military
spirit, it's just about your number. As in ww2, your armies weren't doing any good job.
You just have luck You are so big. You are like an elephant that is almost killed by a bee.

Do you have any example that any other country resisted and survived intervention of 14 foreign countries at once and all this during Civil war, which means that big part of population fought on invader's side?

Yes. Poland. During Swedish flood, we were fighting with every our neighbour and though
practically all Poland was occupated, managed to liberate it.
Anyway, most of the interveniants were either too far from You to fight effectively,
or were just weak, recently organised little states. Anyway You count everyone on the territory of former
tzarate as an intervenant it seems. Do You count f.e. Armenians as a great threat to Russia's souvereignity?

Of course you might say that Poland took part of Russian territory during intervention, but Stalin returned those lands in 1939.

Only with help of Germany. There's no way that Poland could loose a war with USSR only in 1939.
And that's no Russian territory.

P.S. I don?t see any logic in your claims. First you said that Poland was a huge Empire a quote from you-
then you said that Poland is like a fly in compare with Russia. Can you explain your logic?

Yes. You see, You have to treat it all having some proportions; Polish base is pretty small, still
we managed to conquer for a shorter or longer times enormous territories. Russia has enormous
base, and it has difficulties with conquering smallest nations.

Anyway, in year 1830, the part of Poland under tzar/king rule was like a fly compared to Russia.
There were Russian forces prepaired for war (with Belgium), and Poles managed to kick your ass many times
and not be defeated until Ostroleka battle, which changed everything.
You, Russians, are in a very comfortable situation. Nothing to the north, pesky, but not lasting for long enemies
on the east and south, little nations to the west.

[Ned]

Serb, et al., I found this on the web. Do you agree with it?

The Foundation of the Russian Empire

It was the invasions of the Vikings or Northmen which forced a union of northwestern Russian principalities under a Scandinavian chieftain named Rurik. The very first warlike expeditions of the Vikings had been directed against the Slavs. The Vikings established themselves on the east coast of Sweden and sent frequent expeditions to the northern frontier of Russia.

The Slavs and Finns of northwestern Russia came to have great respect for the bravery and power of the Scandinavians and finally decided to call them to their aid - a move which would protect them from the crueler invasions of the Mongols and Turks. They sent to Rurik, a great Scandinavian chief, saying, "Our land is great and has strength in abundance, but it lacks order and justice. Come and take possession and rule over us."

In response to this invitation, Rurik gathered together his kindred and a company of armed followers, and established himself on the northern frontier of the Slavs. He soon became very powerful and about the year 862 made Novrogrod (about 100 miles south of the present St. Petersburg) the capital of an empire stretching from the lakes in the north to the sources of the Dnieper in the south.

In the meanwhile, two Viking chiefs by the name of Askold and Dir had wrested Kiev from the eastern Slavs and established Scandinavian rule over them. The first certain date in Russian history is the year 865, during which Askold led an expedition against Byzantium. This expedition was successful, and Askold's fleet was destroyed in the sea of Marmora. The barbarians attributed this disaster to the efficiency of the prayers of the Christians, and, as a result, Askold and many of his followers embraced Christianity. In the following year, the Church was established at Kiev.

Kiev - The First Capital of Russia

The death of Rurik occurred in 879, when he was succeeded by the oldest member of his family, Oleg. This ruler conquered the eastern Slavs, put Askold and Dir out of the way by an act of treachery and made Kiev the capital of the Empire. The great Byzantine city, Constantinople, was now the goal of the Russian Monarchs. In 907, Oleg reached the gates of Constantinople and obliged the emperor to pay a large ransom for the city and to agree to a treaty of free commerce between the Russians and Greeks.

The kings descended from Rurik gradually consolidated the monarchy, which was destined to become one of the foremost powers of Europe. The state came to be called Russia, from Ruotsi (Corsairs), the name given by the Finns to the Norse conquerors.

In 988, Vladimir I adopted the Greek Orthodox Church as the official state religion. He ordered that churches and priests be established in all towns, and that the people be baptized. Thousands of people formed lines at the river Dnieper and were baptized en masse.

Although it was a forced Christianization of Russia, it was beneficial to the progress of the society in general. From this time, monks from Byzantium and architects, artisans and merchants from Germany, Italy and Greece, spread languages, customs and ideas of the Christian nations of the East and West. They brought their culture to the fierce tribes of the North until by the eleventh century the Russians were on the same level of civilization as the people of western Europe

Ned

[Heresson]

It should be; Ruthenian, not Russian.

[Bereta_Eder]

Fact is, if Russia wants you screwed, you ARE screwed

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes, the Vikings did form modern Russia. They were the founders of the Russian state. There was a reason Vladmir (the one that threw off the Mongols) had blond hair and blue eyes .

[The Vagabond]

Heresson, now you seem to resemble Luke a lot. I thought of you as a much more moderate Pole.

[Natan]

I saw Chemielnicki mentioned, and I want to ask a question about him. How is he remembered in Poland, Ukraine, and other eastern European countries? Also, how is his name pronounced? khem-i-elnitzki?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Serb



Oh, man. I've never laugh so hard. 'founded by the Vikings 1100 years ago'?
You think that we are decendance of Vikings?

Perhaps you can explain why Ros is the name of a Swedish tribe and not of Slavic origin? You are not descended from Vikings, your state was founded by Vikings and ruled and influenced by them for several hundred years. They taught you about the world outside of the forest.

[David Floyd]

That is very true, serb, if you need someone else to tell you so

[Ned]

I find it very interesting that a citizen of Russia does not know his own history -- or that he denies it.

Serb, if you still do not accept the facts as we, the West, know them to be, think about the fact that your were TAUGHT history.

Ned

[TCO]

Originally posted by Tau Ceti

He is from Mississippi. The pride of the South.

Alabama exists soley for Georgians to look down on. Mississippi exists soley for Alabamans to look down on.