Europe and "Those People"

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Velociryx
LOL....it's hardly the American Way...where do you suppose we learned it from!

-=Vel=-

Oh wait...I know this one...The English?

Yep...England in Ireland and Scotland, and later in Australia/NZ towards the aborginals and Maoris.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by notyoueither
North Americans have their hands out of their arses PH.

Remember. We're the ones who are usually there to help put the pieces back together after Europe blows the deal. Us and the Aussies and Kiwis.

Is this the 'We Saved Your Arse In World War Twoâ„¢' bullsh*t again? Is that all you can say? For once, you are the main part of this mess, yes, you, the United States. So don't you dare tell me about the problem being of our cause.

[notyoueither]

Britain is an exception to many things European. Pity that circumstances forced you to tie yourselves to that mob.

[Velociryx]

LOL Red John...I sincerely hope you don't believe that our political system is much in line with, or has much in common with Nazi Germany. If so, I'd invite you to come here and have a look around for yourself.

No...I was referring to the nation that spawned us...you might be passingly familiar with the little island nation that juts off of Europe....the one that once ruled oh...'bout half the world with the general policy of "make the world England" (don't think that was ever said, but the intent was clear enough).

Aside from that, the US of A hasn't been around long enough to "occupy and oppress" anybody for a couple of centuries, and though we DO have bases set up hither and yon, it's been mostly our policy to staff them to prevent others from fighting tooth and nail, or to give us areas of rapid response, not to stir the pot (Japan, our bases in Europe, Korea, etc). Not saying we haven't behaved in an Imperialistic fashion now and again....just pointing out that it's a behavior learned quite clearly from our forefathers in Europe.

I'm afraid we've not been around long enough to even begin to approch the level of boogy man Euros sometimes like to paint that we are.

You mentioned Native Americans, and yes, they were treated badly by the United States....but were they treated any worse by us than say....Spain? (the nation that toppled ancient American Empires and depopulated entire regions).

Did we "colonize" nearly fifty percent of the planet and install our own governors?

I musta been sleeping in history class....missed that part.

I don't buy into the overall tone of the article, btw....I think that yahoos like LePen are the exception and not the rule...but more and more frequently, I keep hearing about the kinna stuff portrayed in the article....not saying history is predestined to repeat itself, but it could very well if we're not mindful of it.

-=Vel=-

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Oh wait...I know this one...The English?

Yep...England in Ireland and Scotland, and later in Australia/NZ towards the aborginals and Maoris.

And shall we bring up how you treated native Americans? It is history and is simply not relevent to this discussion. So quit barracking.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Britain is an exception to many things European. Pity that circumstances forced you to tie yourselves to that mob.

What bullsh*t. You say lots, yet understand nothing. How much do you really know about Europe? Take your ignorant mouth and get out of here.

[notyoueither]

Errrm. I'm not an American.

And just how is the American assurance of a Jewish state in Israel different from British guarantees to Poland. Both are for principles.

My allusions to the past are my way of saying that Europeans should not be too holier than thou to other people in other, very difficult situations.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Errrm. I'm not an American.

So what are you then?

And just how is the American assurance of a Jewish state in Israel different from British guarantees to Poland. Both are for principles.

Considerably different. The Poles weren't oppressing the Germans

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
For once, you are the main part of this mess, yes, you, the United States. So don't you dare tell me about the problem being of our cause.

I beg to differ. The problems in Palestine originated under British rule. America just inherited the problem when your Empire collapsed. America is responsible for its own share of problems in the world (particularly in Latin America) but you can't blame the conflict in Palestine on us.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


And shall we bring up how you treated native Americans? It is history and is simply not relevent to this discussion. So quit barracking.

Okay, Ignorant American(tm) question....

What the hell does "Barracking" mean?

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Considerably different. The Poles weren't oppressing the Germans

Poland was, however, occupying former German territories with a majority German population. Wasn't Germany justified in attacking Poland to free their German brothers from a humiliating Polish occupation?

[notyoueither]

PH. I'm Canadian.

And the Israelis would by and large like to stop occupying Palestinians. But what they need first is peace. You do not make peace with someone who is still killing your soldiers and civilians. The British are very up on this procedure of warfare. Why criticise others who follow a sensible path?

It would be a whole other matter if the Palestinians had a Mandela or a Gandhi leading them.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by notyoueither
PH. I'm Canadian.

And the Israelis would by and large like to stop occupying Palestinians. But what they need first is peace. You do not make peace with someone who is still killing your soldiers and civilians. The British are very up on this procedure of warfare. Why criticise others who follow a sensible path?

It would be a whole other matter if the Palestinians had a Mandela or a Gandhi leading them.

A cornered rat fights hard. The Israeli state has had the opportunity to solve this mess in the past, but the whole affair has flared up again since the election of Sharon. It's a difficult one to solve, but brutality is just going to fan the flames, not solve it. That will take something a little less 'easy' than simple thuggery.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten


Poland was, however, occupying former German territories with a majority German population. Wasn't Germany justified in attacking Poland to free their German brothers from a humiliating Polish occupation?

That was not what happened though was it? Germany wanted to occupy Poland for completely different reasons. The allocation of territories were the result of the settlement of WWI. They may have returned at a later date. But you know as well as I do, that was not the intention of Nazi Germany to return those provinces, but to take Poland.

[Velociryx]

Feels strange to be on the opposite side of the fence from PH...as I recall, he and I are usually in agreement.

I would say though, that Israel has offered QUITE generous terms to the Palestenian leadership (a known supporter of terrorism, btw), only to have those offers rejected across the board.

It comes back to the question that really lies at the center of resolving the conflict at hand: Can you/should you negotiate with terrorists?

-=Vel=-