Europe and "Those People"

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Eli
I need a quick lesson in history. How did the Brits got there? And when?

They invaed it, in the middle ages. Nowadays, the majority of people there is Protestant, which is a decent reason for keeping it the way it is. It has been like that for hundreds of years, as has been the fact that 100% were ownded by THEM. Your advancing won't get you anywhere, it would take thousand of years and a sleeping public in order to get your claims in Palestine only halfway 'justified'...

[Ecthy]

1. There is no proof that terrifying and killing civilians has decreased 'world-wide terror' or even regional terror. That has been achieved by arresting responsibles, but that's not the matter.

2. No they haven't.

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
YOU most certainly haven't done anything to settle peace there.

And then, since when have countries been allowed to do whatever they felt like just ebcause they're souvereign states? so is Yugoslavia, yet they were bombed back into the stone age, and it seems some people are proud of that.

I dont see palestinian cities being burned, thousands murdered, MiG's strafing civilian convoys. Moreover, I dont see 90,000 palestinians leaving the W.Bank every month.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Eli



I need a quick lesson in history. How did the Brits got there? And when?

I'm doing it in history for a-level. Protestants emigrated there a few hundred yeas ago and Britain invaded Ireland. Ireland remains under British rule with the Act of Union in 1801. Several failed uprisings, revolutions, etc, later, Britain finally pushes the Home Rule Act in 1914, to grant the Irish and independant state. However, the people in the north are British and wish to remain art of the UK. In the end the Irish were given their own country and the Northern Irish remained in the UK. All is fair, the populace voted for this. However, the IRA think that the Northern Irish should be forced to join the Republic and decided the best way to do this is by bombing British civilians. Americans fund them, feeling the Irish are an 'oppressed people'.

NATIVE AMERICANS, ANYONE?

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Ecthelion


They invaed it, in the middle ages. Nowadays, the majority of people there is Protestant, which is a decent reason for keeping it the way it is. It has been like that for hundreds of years, as has been the fact that 100% were ownded by THEM. Your advancing won't get you anywhere, it would take thousand of years and a sleeping public in order to get your claims in Palestine only halfway 'justified'...

Yes and correct me if im wrong, UK has backed the protestants. Which hold down the catholic minority with jim crow like laws.

[Kropotkin]

The author jumps from France to the entire Europe as the subject in the article. How very moronic. Only uneducated american journalists and frenchmen usually make that mix-up. He's also mix up the french goverments international policy with a (sizable) minority that votes for a pseudo-facist

It's so predicable to label all criticm over Israeli actions as anti-semitism. Just look at it: "What we are seeing is pent-up anti-Semitism, [...]of a millennium-old urge that powerfully infected and shaped European history." oh please come on. It sounds like Europeans didn't do anything else than harrass jews during the last 1000 years. People have been killed and harrassed for millions of reasons. It would be like calling all criticsm of Berlusconi as the result of the 30-year war.

The author is clearly out to promote his own (miss)concepetions of the world instead of making a solid and reasonable analysis.

[Eli]

Originally posted by red_jon


I'm doing it in history for a-level. Protestants emigrated there a few hundred yeas ago and Britain invaded Ireland. Ireland remains under British rule with the Act of Union in 1801. Several failed uprisings, revolutions, etc, later, Britain finally pushes the Home Rule Act in 1914, to grant the Irish and independant state. However, the people in the north are British and wish to remain art of the UK. In the end the Irish were given their own country and the Northern Irish remained in the UK. All is fair, the populace voted for this. However, the IRA think that the Northern Irish should be forced to join the Republic and decided the best way to do this is by bombing British civilians. Americans fund them, feeling the Irish are an 'oppressed people'.

So, because of immigration the protestants became a majority in N. Ireland? And now you keep it because they democratically decided to stay(doh, they're the majority)?

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Eli


So, because of immigration the protestants became a majority in N. Ireland? And now you keep it because they democratically decided to stay(doh, they're the majority)?

Yup. We can't win - we have the IRA now, but if we hand it back we have Ulster terrorists AND a pissed off populace.

[Bosh]

Well the main difference between Northern Island and the Occupied Territories is that the majority of the people in NA want to be part of the UK (although with current bith rate trend this will probably change eventually) while that not exactly the case with the Occupied Territories, but we can't let little things like democracy get in the way of labeling those who happen to think that a fairly unpleasant military occupation may not be the best thing in the world as anti-semitic, now can we?

[Eli]

Originally posted by red_jon


Yup. We can't win - we have the IRA now, but if we hand it back we have Ulster terrorists AND a pissed off populace.

Ooook.

Hypothetically, if in the next 50 years Israel manages to bring 600,000 French Jews, 200,000 Argentinian ones, 500,000 from East Europe and 500,000 from around the world to Judea&Samaria, thus creating a Jewish majority there... Granting the Pals a state in the Gaza Strip and then making a referendum in Judea&Samaria. The majority will, of course, vote for staying in Israel.

Will you support Israel then?

[Ecthy]

Why am I not surprised you don't reply to my post...

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Eli
Ooook.

Hypothetically, if in the next 50 years Israel manages to bring 600,000 French Jews, 200,000 Argentinian ones, 500,000 from East Europe and 500,000 from around the world to Judea&Samaria, thus creating a Jewish majority there... Granting the Pals a state in the Gaza Strip and then making a referendum in Judea&Samaria. The majority will, of course, vote for staying in Israel.

Will you support Israel then?

Yes we will, because you will have gained that majority by a very blunt method. Of course it's pretty smart, but it's naughty enought not to be tolerated. And then, it also depends on how those people are spread over the region. And if settlements stay considered illegal (and they will), you'll hardly get a majority in those 22%

[Sirotnikov]

Firstly, faded is right.

You euro pacifists have lost all proportions, and see every military operation as a "massacare" and "genocide".

FACT: People, even innocent people, die in wars.
FACT: People, even innocent people, get displaced in wars.

NEWS: Israel is in war with the Palestinian terrorists and most of it's leadership (since they participate in terror).

True, it's sad when innocent palestinians die or become injured, or lose all their belongings. I feel sorry for them. I sometimes think what would I do in that case, but I mostly try not to.

The fact is, that 18 months ago, no one except the PLO leadership, and the Israeli intelligence dreamed that this would come.

If we were fighting a regular army I would support bringing in international troops.

But we aren't. We are fighting terrorists who work covertly.

So the international forces would lack the power or will to stop terracts.

They will however, stop every Israeli action directed at cleaning out terrorist nests.

[Ecthy]

Building settlements on land that doesn't belong to your country is regular warfare then?

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Eli


Ooook.

Hypothetically, if in the next 50 years Israel manages to bring 600,000 French Jews, 200,000 Argentinian ones, 500,000 from East Europe and 500,000 from around the world to Judea&Samaria, thus creating a Jewish majority there... Granting the Pals a state in the Gaza Strip and then making a referendum in Judea&Samaria. The majority will, of course, vote for staying in Israel.

Will you support Israel then?

I don't know. Circumstances different though - you wouldn't have been there for centuries.