Interfering in Other Peoples' Sex Lives

[Dr Strangelove]

What is a 21 year old doing running in the same social circles as a 14 year old? The 21 year old is the one who should be mature enough to make the decisions. As an older, more mature person he has an obligation to protect her, i.e., by staying ther heck out of her honey pot!

I don't forsee a good conclusion to this union. He may get tired of her, in which case she will feel abused more so than if her boyfriend were closer to her age and she could at least rationalise the failure as being due to his immaturity. She may get tired or leery of him, in which case, given the disparity between them, she may have more trouble pulling away without getting physically hurt. She may get pregnant. Pregnancies at her age are likely to be difficult. He may leave her if she gets pregnant. Worse would be if he decided to not leave her, because it is extremely unlikely that a guy his age who dates junior high school girls is emotionally stable enough to make a stable life partner.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Tingkai


But if we believe that a law is necessary to protect the young from older sexual predators then that law cannot be based on individual situations. It must be based on the general situation.

In general, the vast majority of 14-year-olds are not mature. They lack the ability to think about certain concepts.

And in general the majority of adults who would pursue a 14-year-old are not mature. This case seems a perfect opportunity for law enforcement intervention.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Tom201
The Law is rather based on when or when not a teenager is able to make his/her own decisions.
When you look at other laws, concerning responsibility limits, its very reasonable. A child of 10 for example cant be charged for shoplifting. While there is a law, that from the age of 14 you are able to sign minor (privat) business contracts. Additionally you get in trouble for criminal activity.
I think this limits also should apply for other issues. Why isnt a teenager able to make decissions on sex, when he can on business stuff?

In the US a 14 year old would need a court order in order to be allowed to sign contracts without his parent's permission. Oh, Oh, I know, perhaps this girl and guy can make an appearence at court before they ****. They're welcome to come over here.

[Gibsie]

Originally posted by Tingkai The real question is what is the right thing to do?

I think you need to tell him:

a) what he is doing is illegal and could get him thrown in jail (assuming this is true)
b) What he is doing is morally wrong (assuming you believe that)

If you don't tell him what you think then you are passively condoning it.

From my perspective, if you stand by and do nothing while a friend does something that you believe is wrong then you are a partner in the crime.

I've tried to make him look at it through a decent person's POV, and he is convinced that it is love, so therefore he and her have the right to do anything they want together. He must know it's illegal, and he must know that most people think it's morally wrong, and from my recent attitude to him, it's clear to him I'm one of those people who doesn't like it.

[offtopic]How old were the protagonists in Romeo and Juliet? I'm sure the girl was 14 and the guy was older... how come their relationship is the pinnacle of romance to so many?[/offtopic]

[Dr Strangelove]

In my almost 20 years of practice I have encountered quite a few mothers under the age of 15. In every case the girl wound up unmarried and living with her mother. I can not recall a case in which the girl came from a family with two parents at home. Among those cases where I had some contact with the family for several years in all cases the girl eventually abandoned her child, usually leaving it in the care of the mother's mother. I might add that this situation is not only almost the rule for girls who give birth when younger than 16, but also applies to the majority of girls who get pregnant when younger than 18. I would also like to point out that the younger the girl is, the less likely the couple are to have used contraception.

In practice then, sexual involvement with a young teen girl is blatantly unfair to everyone involved, with the possible exception of the guy who gets his ya-ya's off. The girl gets her entire life disrupted and will have to live her entire life with the memory of the baby she abandoned. This minor girl, who so very much needs the assistance of her mother, will lose this assistance when she escapes her situation. The baby will of course be severely disadvantaged. Even if the grandmother keeps him/her at first he/she is likely to eventually be placed in foster care at some point or to be bounced around from family member to family member. It's unfair to the girl's mother, who having almost reached the end of her child caring responsibility, winds up being forced to take on the care of a child she didn't want. It's unfair to you and me, who in all likelihood will wind up contributing more to the kid's care than the stud ever will.

[Tom201]

Interesting you bring up teenage pregnacy. I wrote already something about it in this thread, here the quote:

The rate on teenage pregnacies in the UK (which has restrictive laws on sex) is far higher, compared to the Netherlands.

Countrys with resitrictive laws on sexual themes have also a restrictive society. From my (admited very short) experience in the UK (was there in a exchange family about 6 years ago), its a big tabu to speak with his parents about sex. It is an issue to buy condoms as a minor. And if you do the shopowner is very unfriendly and looks at you, like you did a big sin or whatever. That happend both 2 times I went there on diffrent places for condoms. The info about sex comes from hearsay.

So I think its save to say that its easier in the netherlands for teens to get: a) the info and knowledge and b) the possibilties for pregnancy prevention.

And that links to the general, sex laws and atitude in these countrys.


You see restrictive laws are counterproductive to prevent teenage pregnacies.

[Dr Strangelove]

SO what if they looked at you! Maybe you're paranoid!

You're argument is quite flawed. Is it possible that the UK has more restrictive laws because the rate of teen pregnancy is higher? Maybe there are other reasons why teen prgnancy is more common. Could it be that UK teens are simply more sexually active? Perhaps this is a result of an underlying differnece in the cultures. Maybe there is still enough old German morality left in the Netherlands that Dutch teens just aren't doing it as often as UK teens. The Netherlands is a smaller, more compact country. This could have an effect on teen activities. In order to validate your conclusion that sexual repression leads to higher rates of teen pregnancy you're going to do a lot more research. You will at least need to compare rates of sexual activity in the two countries, then find some data on sexual attitudes in the two. Are UK teens more interested in having intercourse than Dutch teens? If so, why? Your conclusion only applies if you can show that the higher rate of prgnancy in the UK is attributable to the lack of access to contraception or that UK teens engage in sex largely to flaunt the laws and /or common morals of the country.

[Gibsie]

And I think we get the point Strangeloev, teenage pregnancies = not good. But, altohugh teenage pregnancy happens more often than we'd like, I don't think we should be taking it as a given that it will happen to the girl...

[Tom201]

I think its quite logic, that it is not as easy for a teenager to go buy condoms in a country where it is illegal to have sex his age, than in a country where it is legal.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Gibsie
And I think we get the point Strangeloev, teenage pregnancies = not good. But, altohugh teenage pregnancy happens more often than we'd like, I don't think we should be taking it as a given that it will happen to the girl...

Actually there is a one-in-five chance that it will happen with each instance of intercourse. You'd think that the ratio would be closer to one-in-thirty, but most people abstain during the menestrual period and it is also established that girls are more likely to be interested in having sex near the time of ovulation.

Even if it isn't a given you should acknowledge the possibility and be willing to accept the consequences.

[Gibsie]

Umm, he's 21, and knows about the birds and the bees... according to a discussion on safe sex he uses condoms during the act (he's not a moron), and, well, I'm not sure what to make of Tom's post. I guess it desn't apply to this case study...

[Ming]

Originally posted by Tom201
I think its quite logic, that it is not as easy for a teenager to go buy condoms in a country where it is illegal to have sex his age, than in a country where it is legal.

Another example of how moronic your logic is...
In the US, there is NO law against minors buying condoms, yet it is against the law for underage sex. Just another unsupported and idiotic logical statement.

[Tom201]

Another example of how moronic your logic is...

Aha, where was the first one?

In the US, there is NO law against minors buying condoms,

If you read my statement again, you will see I havent claimed it

yet it is against the law for underage sex. .

Exactly that was my point.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Tom201
Aha, where was the first one?

Take your pick... you've made so many in this thread already, it's so hard to choose which is the most moronic

If you read my statement again, you will see I havent claimed it

No... you didn't claim it... but you did claim it was "logic" that it is not as easy for minors to buy condoms in places where it is illegal for minors to have sex... and as I pointed out, you were WRONG

Exactly that was my point.

As stated above, that wasn't your point. The point you made was simply wrong and idiotic

[Tom201]

Take your pick... you've made so many in this thread already, it's so hard to choose which is the most moronic

Cheap excuse

No... you didn't claim it... but you did claim it was "logic" that it is not as easy for minors to buy condoms in places where it is illegal for minors to have sex... and as I pointed out, you were WRONG

Not easy doesnt mean illegal. It means there is a higer restrain-swell for the minor, especially in small towns, where everyone knows each other.