Does Pi contain my phone number.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by orange


would you say the same about 10100100010000100000......?

randomness implies that all possibilities are equally likely; 0-9. A truely random number would have both random pattern and distribution of the digits 0-9. You are artificially limiting 'infinite patterns' to predictable distribution.

[Guest]

ok wait
when i said repeat itself i didnt say it properly
im not saying pi contains pi i meant that pi will contain a repetion of any finite length u want
and that string of 0 and 1 orange will be contained an infinite number of times in pi if it is written in decimal OR binary

[Caesar the Great]

yeah but since pi can be written as the limit of a series shouldn't there be a way to predict exactly where my phone number, or any other number will appear?

[orange]

Originally posted by LulThyme
ok wait
when i said repeat itself i didnt say it properly
im not saying pi contains pi i meant that pi will contain a repetion of any finite length u want
and that string of 0 and 1 orange will be contained an infinite number of times in pi if it is written in decimal OR binary

Here's where I lose some of you.

I can understand if you say that it's possible for any finite string of numbers ( decimal or otherwise... ) to exist within pi, but to say that it must exist AND that it must exist an infinite amount of times sounds a little kooky to me.

Just because pi is random doesn't mean that EVERYTHING must occur within it.

For example: assuming the Universe is infinitely large, would you guarantee that there are an infinite amount of planets exactly like Earth within the Universe?

I'd say no, but from the sounds of things, simply because the Universe is infinite, you would make that guarantee.

[Sarxis]

Since we are on the topic of random and infinite numbers:

You know that theory that states 'if you take a room full of monkeys, and give them each a typewriter, eventually (given an infinite amount of time) they will write a novel'? Another way to put it is to take a random number generator and infinite time: eventually, it will generate every number pattern possible... eventually.

The theory actually disproves itself.

Take an infinite number of random number generators; according to this theory (given infinite time to look for it), you will eventually find one that never produces the number '7'. So how can that particular number generator ever fulfill the theory?

[Caesar the Great]

could it be possible to generate an algorithm or something to determine where a particular finite string of numbers will appear... and since it must appear an infinite number of times could it be written as a function?

then again what do i know...

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Caesar the Great
yeah but since pi can be written as the limit of a series shouldn't there be a way to predict exactly where my phone number, or any other number will appear?

Because prediction relies on order. If the order is not predictable... no prediction is possible. You could do a proof with a probability, but that would be different from an exact prediction.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Slow down a bit, LulThyme... Let's assume two series of figures: First, some randomly chosen one, let's say 576456234. Second, all the numbers before some given point in the approximation of pi. Now, you say that the first has to be repeated infinitely many times in pi - in the second case, you say that it can only be repeated finitely.

* thinks *

Ah, of course, figured it out myself. In the first case we're speaking about occurrences - in the second case, repeats. Different things.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by orange


Here's where I lose some of you.

I can understand if you say that it's possible for any finite string of numbers ( decimal or otherwise... ) to exist within pi, but to say that it must exist AND that it must exist an infinite amount of times sounds a little kooky to me.

Just because pi is random doesn't mean that EVERYTHING must occur within it.

For example: assuming the Universe is infinitely large, would you guarantee that there are an infinite amount of planets exactly like Earth within the Universe?

I'd say no, but from the sounds of things, simply because the Universe is infinite, you would make that guarantee.

is not NECESSARILY true that the universe is infinite. It may be. Then again, maybe its finite.

[Caesar the Great]

orange... that depends wether you mean space itself or matter? if there is only a finite ammount of matter there may only be 1 planet like earth, but with an infinite ammount of matter (which creates all kinds of problems) there would have to be an infinite number of planets exactly like earth, not to mention an infinite number of planets with an extra oxygen molecule and an infinite number of planets with an extra nitrogen molecule etc....

[orange]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
is not NECESSARILY true that the universe is infinite. It may be. Then again, maybe its finite.

I said that it was an assumption for my analogy. I never made the claim that the universe actually is infinite.

For example: assuming the Universe is infinitely large, would you guarantee that there are an infinite amount of planets exactly like Earth within the Universe?

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Caesar the Great
orange... that depends wether you mean space itself or matter? if there is only a finite ammount of matter there may only be 1 planet like earth, but with an infinite ammount of matter (which creates all kinds of problems) there would have to be an infinite number of planets exactly like earth, not to mention an infinite number of planets with an extra oxygen molecule and an infinite number of planets with an extra nitrogen molecule etc....

only if formation of matter worked to include dupes... its possible that such a universe would have infinite variation too.

[orange]

Originally posted by Caesar the Great
orange... that depends wether you mean space itself or matter? if there is only a finite ammount of matter there may only be 1 planet like earth, but with an infinite ammount of matter (which creates all kinds of problems) there would have to be an infinite number of planets exactly like earth, not to mention an infinite number of planets with an extra oxygen molecule and an infinite number of planets with an extra nitrogen molecule etc....

Why?

[Sarxis]

Originally posted by Caesar the Great
orange... that depends wether you mean space itself or matter? if there is only a finite ammount of matter there may only be 1 planet like earth, but with an infinite ammount of matter (which creates all kinds of problems) there would have to be an infinite number of planets exactly like earth, not to mention an infinite number of planets with an extra oxygen molecule and an infinite number of planets with an extra nitrogen molecule etc....

No, there is no proof of that; see my post about the monkeys a few paces back.

And there is no such thing as random anyhow; the system generating the randomness determines the pattern.

That's how high-tech crooks can win at digital Keno everytime. And it is also true in nature.

[Caesar the Great]

i'll assume there has to be