AA? What AA? After 25 years of trying, US media still fails diversity test

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by WhiteElephants

You are a politically correct wrecking ball run amok.

Hes like a left-wing version of Giancarlo!

[WhiteElephants]

Tingkai -- with regards to MacTBone's post care to comment on Bo Jackson's statistics last year? Care to give us a statistical analysis of Kordell Stewart who nearly lost his job the year before last, only to lead his team to the best NFL win/loss record last year? Care to shed some light on how Hassiem Rachman beat Lennox Lewis, only to lose a year later to Lennox Lewis? Given your gifted use of statistics you should have no problem determining who will win the NHL, NBA, NFL, etc., etc. Nor would I be suprised if you could even go so far as to name the player of the game.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by WhiteElephants
Can you accept that maybe minorities aren't as interested in being in journalism as caucasians? Could that possibly be a factor?

No, because a quarter of all journalism students are visible minorities. That's about on par, if not higher, then the percentage of visible minorities within the US population. So there is evidence of parity in journalism schools, but not in the industry. In other words, there is evidence that visible minorities are as interested in journalism as whites.

This is about the third time that I have mentioned this evidence, and yet most of you continue to bury your heads in the sand and refuse to listen to the evidence.

Originally posted by WhiteElephants
If a newpaper had more than a racial parity of minorities would you then be arguing that they are discriminating against whites as well? Does every thing have to be in exact harmony, or else its a symptom of racism?

Again, you're missing the point. Newspaper editors have claimed that they have affirmative action programs, and yet after 25 years, a third of all daily newspapers in the US do not employ minority journalists. That clearly indicates that, for many newspapers, AA is just BS.

[Tingkai]

With regards to sports, too many of you seem to be missing the point.

The question about the NBA was: is there racism in the sport? My response is that the performance of NBA players can be measured with stats and so it is easy to explain why they are in the game. If they don't perform, they don't survive and their performance can be measured. This is simply stuff folks.

Is there racism against white NBA players. I strongly doubt it. Can anyone provide an example of a good white basketball player who was not able to get into the NBA?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Can anyone provide an example of a good white basketball player who was not able to get into the NBA?

Can you provide an example of a good, qualified minority journalist (This doesn't always follow with graduating from a school.) that was passed over for a job because of racism?

[TCO]

Originally posted by Tingkai
With regards to sports, too many of you seem to be missing the point.

The question about the NBA was: is there racism in the sport? My response is that the performance of NBA players can be measured with stats and so it is easy to explain why they are in the game. If they don't perform, they don't survive and their performance can be measured. This is simply stuff folks.

Is there racism against white NBA players. I strongly doubt it. Can anyone provide an example of a good white basketball player who was not able to get into the NBA?

Tingkai, sure.

The precense of clear standards allows us to see there is no racism. If there are no clear standards, does that mean the suspect industry is racist? No. It MIGHT mean that there is an imbalence in applicants from different groups, just as in the NBA. (Or there might be racism. But you can't tell just from the numbers.) The points are:

1. You can't tell that an industry is racist just because of outcomes.
2. Industries MAY have different balances of racial representation and NOT be racist.

[TCO]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Can you provide an example of a good, qualified minority journalist (This doesn't always follow with graduating from a school.) that was passed over for a job because of racism?

Well, we know that there are white basketball players who don't make the transition from college to pros. (Waits to see if Tingkai can make analogy...)

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by GP
Tingkai, sure.
The precense of clear standards allows us to see there is no racism. If there are no clear standards, does that mean the suspect industry is racist? No. It MIGHT mean that there is an imbalence in applicants from different groups, just as in the NBA. (Or there might be racism. But you can't tell just from the numbers.) The points are:
1. You can't tell that an industry is racist just because of outcomes.
2. Industries MAY have different balances of racial representation and NOT be racist.

Sure, but when other factors are examined and found to have no effect then it is reasonable to conclude that racism is a major factor.

What evidence exists that racism is not a major factor?

You have again stated there might be an imbalance in applicants, but there is evidence showing this is not true as I have stated before.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Tingkai
What evidence exists that racism is not a major factor?

I wasn't aware that you could prove a negative.

[Tingkai]

True.

Let me re-phrase the question. Can you provide any evidence that factors other than racism are contributing to the results? Can you show that the number of minorities seeking newspaper job is lower than for whites? Can you provide any evidence that minorities are less likely to pursue a journalism career?

[TCO]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Sure, but when other factors are examined and found to have no effect then it is reasonable to conclude that racism is a major factor.

What evidence exists that racism is not a major factor?

You have again stated there might be an imbalance in applicants, but there is evidence showing this is not true as I have stated before.

1. Well, since you are sure that racism is the cause of the discrepancy, it's up to you to prove it. I'm more agnostic. You're the one who's sure of his opinion without having proof. I'm more open.

2. The proportion of white college basketball players is higher than the proportion of white pro basketball players. That means that either racism is operating against whites or that whites aren't as good of pro prospects or that they're not interested in the NBA.

3. Surely the same thing could be happening in newspapers.

[Moral Hazard]

It aint racism it's networking (or nepotism), and quite frankly whites have more connections then minorities. Remember it not what you know but who you know esp. in journalism.

[TCO]

Maybe (note the maybe) the papers are making judgements on writing samples. Maybe they consider this the same as looking at game films (for basketball players).

[Tingkai]

Moral Hazard: Are you a journalist? On what do you base your statements?

GP:
1. There is an ample supply of minority journalists based on the people who are training to become journalists. These people are different from college athletes who may or may not want a professional athletic career. If you pay money to get a journalism degree then it stands to reason that you want a career in journalism.

2. The supply of minority journalists is there, but at least a third of American dailies do not have a single visible minority on staff. These dailies include papers that operate in communities with a high percentage of visible minorities.

3. To be an average reporter does not require a lot of skill. We're not talking NBA skills here. The vast majority of reporting that I have seen is nothing special and could be done by anyone (the stuff that is really good does require special skill that most reporters don't have). So the skill limitation is not a factor.

If you eliminate all, but one explanation then the remaining explanation is likely true.

[TCO]

Tingkai,

See my post at 29 after the hour. I really can't say much more here. I've stated my points clearly and in several cases you have strained to even understand what I am driving at. I'll have to let you steep and think about things.