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  • #76
    Originally posted by KrazyHorse
    That's who we are.
    Not everyone, just the same fools who keep electing Chretien & Co.

    On the contrary, our Constitution was altered last in 1982 and nothing happened. Formally going from monarchy to republic would have very little impact on the political landscape, and most provinces are overwhelmingly willing to stay where they are. Even Quebec's given up for at least the next long while.
    Didn't Quebec refuse to sign that constitution?
    And since then, your lovely government has further alienated the Western Provinces. Don't count them on agreeing on everything you guys want.

    I like things the way they are. Much more interesting than the blahfest of US politics. You really do overestimate the centrifugal tendencies of the provinces. Quebec came close to the brink 7 years ago, but it's stepped back since then.
    You see, this is the problem.
    You refuse to acknowledge problems with the system because you're too self-absorbed to see that other regions of the country has many legitimate complaints about how the current system works.

    Your attitude is what causes countries to fail. They coast along on a leaking boat until the boat simply begins to sink.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Sprayber
      Ok. So that's what it comes down to. Canada isn't a Republic because you guys are afraid that you will come up with something worse? How disappointing
      Why? We haven't seen anything that proves that becoming a republic would make our lives better.
      Golfing since 67

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Tingkai
        Thanks for the info, notyoueither.

        So Byng had the two choices: call an election or ask another party to form the government. Where does public pressure come into play?
        He refused to dissolve the government. The public wanted the government dissolved. Under public pressure, he eventually dissolved the government...but not before not doing it because of the "Royal Prerogative".
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Asher
          Your attitude is what causes countries to fail. They coast along on a leaking boat until the boat simply begins to sink.


          Where did you see me claim that Quebec's claims were more legitimate than Alberta's? My only point is that Quebec is far more likely to secede than any other province, as any public opinion poll can tell you.
          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
          Stadtluft Macht Frei
          Killing it is the new killing it
          Ultima Ratio Regum

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Asher

            He refused to dissolve the government. The public wanted the government dissolved. Under public pressure, he eventually dissolved the government...but not before not doing it because of the "Royal Prerogative".
            He only dissolved the replacement government because it failed. It either lost a vote of confidence or it felt unable to continue its duties.
            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
            Stadtluft Macht Frei
            Killing it is the new killing it
            Ultima Ratio Regum

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by KrazyHorse


              Where did you see me claim that Quebec's claims were more legitimate than Alberta's?
              I never said you did.

              My only point is that Quebec is far more likely to secede than any other province, as any public opinion poll can tell you.
              That's not what I'm saying.

              You're saying the current federal system is perfectly fine.
              I'm not.

              You don't seem to want to see this from a western perspective, since you admit to only living in Quebec yourself so you wouldn't know what it's like not to have any political sway in the federal government, particularly when you really disagree with how the government is (mis)handling everything.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Asher

                I never said you did.


                That's not what I'm saying.

                You're saying the current federal system is perfectly fine.
                I'm not.

                You don't seem to want to see this from a western perspective, since you admit to only living in Quebec yourself so you wouldn't know what it's like not to have any political sway in the federal government, particularly when you really disagree with how the government is (mis)handling everything.
                I'm not saying it's fine; I'm saying that nobody cares enough to do anything about it. Asher, you constantly assert that you have no sway in the government. That's untrue. You have the same amount of sway as any other Canadian citizen of 18 years or older.
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                  I'm not saying it's fine;
                  Yes, you did!
                  I like things the way they are.


                  Asher, you constantly assert that you have no sway in the government. That's untrue. You have the same amount of sway as any other Canadian citizen of 18 years or older.
                  You're sooooo obtuse, you know that?

                  Alberta's votes may as well be tossed out. It doesn't matter that we consistently vote in someone OTHER than the majority governments. All that we get for it is the cold shoulder from the government. Since they don't NEED our votes, why should they bother doing what the Albertan people want? The needs of Alberta are secondary to the needs of Ontario and Quebec, where their votes come from.

                  Don't you see that? Open your eyes. Things need to change, before you alienate more people.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Asher
                    You don't understand. He was executing a formality that should have simply been done automatically, and he didn't want to do it at first, only after the public roared loud enough did he do it.
                    That's not what happened Asher. Public outcry had nothing to do with it. After the failure of Meighen's government there was no way to form a government in that parliament.

                    It was King who used the issue in the following election. King painted it as an affront to the people of Canada after the fact. There were no riots over it, however people were receptive to King's campaign.
                    (\__/)
                    (='.'=)
                    (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                    • #85
                      So where's the flaw in the system? Donating extra seats to Alberta because they feel ignored is silly. Even Quebec doesn't get that.
                      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                      Stadtluft Macht Frei
                      Killing it is the new killing it
                      Ultima Ratio Regum

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                        So where's the flaw in the system? Donating extra seats to Alberta because they feel ignored is silly. Even Quebec doesn't get that.
                        There are several flaws.
                        The most obvious is the senate. The senate needs REAL power, and needs to adopt a US-style approach (say 5 seats per province, regardless of population). This helps protect the rights of minority provinces.

                        The other is the monarchy. It's useless baggage.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Asher

                          He refused to dissolve the government. The public wanted the government dissolved. Under public pressure, he eventually dissolved the government...but not before not doing it because of the "Royal Prerogative".

                          A quick search of the web gives says M. King was facing a no confidence vote and asked the GG to dissolve parliament. The GG says no and asks Meighan to form the government, but Meighan loses a no confidence vote four days later. The GG is then forced to call an election (presumably because there are no alternatives)

                          Rather then public pressure, this suggests that the MPs objectived to Byng's initial decision and refused to support Meighan.

                          The question is whether this set a precedent? What happened in similar cases after 1926? I can only recall the Clark gov't.

                          It may well be that it is not that the GG had his knuckles rapped, but rather no opposition party would be willing to let the GG give them power given what happened to Meighan.

                          This doesn't change the fact that the GG has the power to dissolve parliament and to ask a party to form a government.
                          Golfing since 67

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by notyoueither
                            That's not what happened Asher. Public outcry had nothing to do with it. After the failure of Meighen's government there was no way to form a government in that parliament.

                            It was King who used the issue in the following election. King painted it as an affront to the people of Canada after the fact. There were no riots over it, however people were receptive to King's campaign.
                            It depends how you want to paint it.

                            There was a very visible public outcry to the power the Governor General held over the situation, which is the entire reason why they haven't flexed muscles since.
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                            • #89
                              Where did you get the idea that provinces have some sort of special standing? The US was formed by adding together 13 independent entities, 13 almost-countries. Canada wasn't, and thus our system is different than theirs. There's no basis in Canadian law for what you propose, and it's a transparent attempt to simply grab some more power for yourselves. Why should the majority give up political power to such a system? They become 2nd-class citizens.
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                                Where did you get the idea that provinces have some sort of special standing? The US was formed by adding together 13 independent entities, 13 almost-countries. Canada wasn't, and thus our system is different than theirs. There's no basis in Canadian law for what you propose, and it's a transparent attempt to simply grab some more power for yourselves. Why should the majority give up political power to such a system? They become 2nd-class citizens.
                                KH, I'm advocating changing the system.
                                You're saying we can't change the system because "our system doesn't work like that", in so many words.

                                And I'm getting really sick of that argument that this is a "transparent" attempt to grab power for ourselves.
                                It's not transparent, it's BLATANT.

                                Alberta NEEDS more of a say on how things work, since the current federal government admittedly IGNORES what Alberta's needs are because they don't need our votes.

                                THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE.

                                The whole concept of a democracy is to have rule of the majority while respecting the rights of the minority. Canada is simply rule of the majority. There is nothing like the US Senate to help protect the rights of the minorities.

                                What do you propose we do to fix it?
                                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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