Apolyton season 3: The flag wars

[Az]

Originally posted by axi


And what do you say about the culture of the Hagana and the Irgun?

that will be the zionist "culture" . It has both european elements and elements of the East. Yair was a poet, publishing many songs. People strived to build a country for the jews to live in , to escape the oppression of other states. Our country has freedom of speech, and pluralism , that is "western" , and much more heartiness , and informalism, that more "eastern".

And of course , you didn't even try to answer my question , because you're so blind. So completely blind, and ignoring the dangers that we ,and all other people that want to see themselves free and equal face. The orthodox Islamic preaching and the social structure it brings with itself.

As for the bombers themselves, I personally find them much more heroic than the average Israeli or American soldier who are murdering civilians from the safety of their vehicles

here lies a mind , so extremist and fundamentalistic , that is probably beyond correction.

[Bereta_Eder]

Terrorism is the fruit of oppression.

Of course noone is going to admit American murders and Israeli murders. That's why there are palestinian murders.

The whole world is shouting against Sharon's offensive and the massacre of 200 Palestinians, their families and their children humiliated.

Noone here speaks about this.

Israeli soldiers (most of them) act like punks murdering and pillaging against defenseless people and yet all is ok.

And then you ask why they blow themselves up?

Of course it's wrong but wrong is also the state terrorism.

Unfortunately, I am starting to believe that israel does not want a Palestinian state to be formed. Thus the murders and humilation that fuel suicide bombers who ultimately kill the hopes of a palestinian state.



Avis personel.

[Bereta_Eder]

Let palestine be formed and then you have the whole world fighting with you against terrorism if it will still exist.

As long as this does not happen, there is no point in condemning it because it will go no.

But it suits some people that it goes on.

And these people play their necks as well as their peoples necks in this.

Sharon is as bad as your next suicide bomber. Worse, since he is democratically elected if you think about it.

Noone talks about the Israelis who are against this course of action too.

[DinoDoc]

Aside from being short on facts and long on assumptions, you seem to have a more consistent POV on this matter than axi and I have to give you mad props for that!

D@mn, you had to go and ruin my compliment by posting something stupid before I could post.

[Az]

Terrorism is the fruit of oppression.

no . Terrorism is the fruit of a rabid crazy ideology.

.

The whole world is shouting against Sharon's offensive and the massacre of 200 Palestinians, their families and their children humiliated.

massacre. well , o.k. I'll start using using unfit terms for things as well. Let's call every palestinian terror act a 'Holocaust' .

Israeli soldiers (most of them) act like punks murdering and pillaging against defenseless people and yet all is ok.

and you know that from what?



and after all said and done , Axi , I really think it wasn't wise to post under two different logins in the same time

[Bereta_Eder]

Look Dinodoc, people like you are as much the cause of the problem as Sharon.

You have eyes but yet you do not see.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Look Dinodoc, people like you are as much the cause of the problem as Sharon.

I think that terrorism should be condemned. You seem to think that the purposeful murder of civilians is a good and noble act. Who's a part of the problem again?

[Bereta_Eder]

The part of the problem is you throwing accusations of supporting terrorism and by doing that permitting the oppression, murder and humiliation to continue and the problem itself to perpetuate.


You hide behind what suits you and prolong the problem and the loss of human lives.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by paiktis22
The part of the problem is you throwing accusations of supporting terrorism

Moneypenny, I only make such "accusations," as you so quaintly put it, when a person makes the statement that he/she sees the purposeful murder of innocent men, women, and children in a positive light. As such when I make the sharge, it isn't completely without merit.

and by doing that permitting the oppression, murder and humiliation to continue and the problem itself to perpetuate.

My support for the Palestinian right to a Nation-State doesn't keep me from condemning attacks on civillians and from seeing such attacks as wholly unjustified in any context. Can you say the same?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Moneypenny, I only make such "accusations," as you so quaintly put it, when a person makes the statement that he/she sees the purposeful murder of innocent men, women, and children in a positive light. As such when I make the sharge, it isn't completely without merit.

You repeat what suits you

My support for the Palestinian right to a Nation-State doesn't keep me from condemning attacks on civillians and from seeing such attacks as wholly unjustified in any context. Can you say the same?

There IS no support for ending the murders and humiliations of the Palestinian people. In fact there IS silent consent and that is all it takes. So you are a part of the problem.
Empty words never made a difference.

[DinoDoc]

Sometimes talking to you, paiktis, is akin to banging my head against a brickwall. You only listen to what suits your limited worldveiw and ignore the rest. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. I'll wait for axi to come back and hope that I can get a productive conversation out of him.

[Sirotnikov]

axi, your resources (indymedia i imagine) give you a very distorted vision of the world.

It is sad that people like you only see the world in two shades - opressors and opressed, and can't see anything beyond that.

It's true, Israel does opress the palestinians and they do deserve a state.

However, the Palestinian leadership did all it could to hurt Israel and support terror. And now, it's time for Israel to clear up the territories from the terrorist encampments that Arafat allowed to be created.

And unfortunately, due to this being a heavily populated urban area, sometimes innocent people are paying with their lives.

However, you should be ashamed to call the killing in battle, of murderous palestinain terrorists, who sniper at Israeli children and who hold their own neighbours hostage.

No one supporting Israel supports the continuationg of opression. As you could wittness in 2000, most Israelis do not support continuation of opression.

Do not be mistaken - this act is not one of opression but of liberation. We are freeing the palestinian people from those who cause harm to their goal. You must understand, terrorists are affecting Israeli public opinion. It makes Israelis feel unsafe. If Israelis feel unsafe - they will keep electing hardliners.

After this operation ends, hopefully after completeion and success, there will be much much less terror acts, and in that enviroment, Israelis will elect a new peacefull PM and will be willing to make peace.

Arafat's fault is that he has been educating against compromise, against peace, against normalization, against living side by side. It starts in schools, where children are taught about the "evil Jews", through military summer-schools where children are taught to "attack" Jews, to TV shows and religious sermons calling for hatred against Jews.

Read www.memri.org www.pmw.org.il www.imra.org and open your eyes.

[Bereta_Eder]

The only contribution to this is your insistence on saying "condemn suicide attacks, condemn suicide attacks condemn them condemn them condemn them".
Relax silly, we condemn them. That does not mean they will not go on.

Now is your turn to condemn Israeli aggression and murders. But you won't. You hide behind the saying that it is being done to stop terrorim or some equal lie.

The problem is you.

[Bereta_Eder]

Dinodoc the only brick wall is you.
The only time you understand anything is when your own people are getting killed. Sad fact. Very.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by paiktis22
blah, blah, blah

As I said, I'm waiting for someone else with whom I can carry an intelligent conversation with. The only candidate I've seen so far is axi, your Greek compatriot.