Arafat an enemy - a cease fire suggestion that came too late

[Richelieu]

You took all three options and "destroyed" them one at a time.

I'll ask you this then: do you propose an alternative?

I posted 3 choices : do you have a solution that is outside of the boundaries of those 3 ?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Richelieu
You took all three options and "destroyed" them one at a time.

I'll ask you this then: do you propose an alternative?

I posted 3 choices : do you have a solution that is outside of the boundaries of those 3 ?

Look, I'm not talking about the peace process.

Obviously a peace process must be, and peace, including a palestinain viable state is a necessety and more or less a fact.

The three choises are choises of dealing with terror.

1) Appease
2) Ignore
3) Root out.

1 & 2 are not favourable choises.

This war is against the terror forces, and those in the PA which support them.

Once there is a non-terrorist Palestinian entity, peace talks can go on.

[MrFun]

Another ME thread.

It's great that some of you are interested in talking about an international issue to DEATH, but to me, cease fires, suicidal bombings, temporary treaties that are broken, house arrests, aerial bombings, and border disputes are nothing fresh and new to discuss.

But if you guys are bored, feel free to discuss whatever you want.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


Look, I'm not talking about the peace process.

Obviously a peace process must be, and peace, including a palestinain viable state is a necessety and more or less a fact.

The three choises are choises of dealing with terror.

1) Appease
2) Ignore
3) Root out.

1 & 2 are not favourable choises.

This war is against the terror forces, and those in the PA which support them.

Once there is a non-terrorist Palestinian entity, peace talks can go on.

OK.

So i guess your choice is 3. Root out.

Unless you have something else in mind.

[The Mad Monk]

'Root out' does appear to be the case. It's about time.

For months, if not years, on this board, I've heard it over and over :

"Don't bomb Palistinean buildings, arrest the terrorists!"
"Don't seal them off from Israel, arrest the terrorists!"
"Don't confrot rock-throwing mobs, arrest the terrorists!"

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY WERE TRYING TO DO IN THOSE CAMPS?!?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Richelieu
OK.

So i guess your choice is 3. Root out.

Unless you have something else in mind.

Yes, my choise of those 3 is to root out.

Which of course must be followed by granting benefits to the people, so that they won't return to terror.

If you think there is another option (not of the 3 presented) that can deal with terror - post ahead.

Again I remind you, this only deals with the militant factions.

[Kaak]

this proves it. i am a psychic

[MrFun]

Kaak, I think anyone can predict the cycle of the Middle East crisis and negotiations and the breakdown of those negotiations.

The casulties over the years on both sides is sickening.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by MrFun
Another ME thread.

Indeed.

As is mentioned in the title of the thread, and the first post in it, thereby giving you the freedom and ability to ignore it, if you wish, and know in advance it's contents, lest you accidentally click on it and discover this by accident.

It's great that some of you are interested in talking about an international issue to DEATH, but to me, cease fires, suicidal bombings, temporary treaties that are broken, house arrests, aerial bombings, and border disputes are nothing fresh and new to discuss.

It is nothing new to me either. I still feel obligated to contribute to make Israel's motiefs and actions clearer, and clear misunderstandings about facts, from my own knowledge of them.

This even in particular, is quite new and since CNN decided to spend an hour covering this, I think it deserves a little thread.

But if you guys are bored, feel free to discuss whatever you want.

We do discuss what ever we want. No one is forced to post here... except maybe me, since I'm addicted to it.

I also spend time browsing the OT generally, participating in humorous threads, and threads about morality and culture. I belive you've met me in other threads.

I also lurk in the Diplomacy and Civ III sections, and before Civ III came out, I was an active participant there. Actually I even made a graphic mod for Civ III.

However, given the effects of this world event, I think it's not wrong to have one or two threads devoted to it.

I remind you that there are some 39 threads on the first page of the OT that do not deal with this issue, free at your disposal.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
"Don't bomb Palistinean buildings, arrest the terrorists!"
"Don't seal them off from Israel, arrest the terrorists!"
"Don't confrot rock-throwing mobs, arrest the terrorists!"

Well it isn't as easy as you think.

The people who are supposed to arrest the terrorists, are the PLO, which are terrorists themselves, and instead only supply the terrorists with funds and weapons.

But the international community expects us to ask them nicely, and believes every empty declaration ARafat makes, paying lip-service to the Americans.

Minutes after each declaration, palestinian spokesmen on the palestinian channel explain to the people that the texts were forced on Arafat by America and Israel, and are temporary and fake.


However, when we try to actually arrest the terrorists, this can only be done effectively in large scale incursions.

The world however, seems to prefer the status-quo of innocent Israelis and Palestinains getting killed all the time.

Any action which has results must be decisive, and so far, the Americans and the rest of the world prevented us from making decisive actions.

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY WERE TRYING TO DO IN THOSE CAMPS?!?

Most people are trying to live...
Some plan terracts.

[MrFun]

Don't mind me Siro -- I'm just bored.

But for the record, I have always sympathized with Israel for the most part.

Palestinians are suffering, but I still find myself sympathizing with Israel.

Anyway, carry on about the predictive cycle of the Middle East crisis.

[Sirotnikov]

Imagine:

On April 1st Sharon makes a press conference -
"I got you! I got you good!
It's all been planned. Arafat was in on it the whole time.
Ladies and Gentlemen - I give you the best April Fools prank EVER"

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Yes, my choise of those 3 is to root out.

Which of course must be followed by granting benefits to the people, so that they won't return to terror.

If you think there is another option (not of the 3 presented) that can deal with terror - post ahead.

Again I remind you, this only deals with the militant factions.

I wonder : do you get any kind of feedback from the Palestinian people? Do you still have contact with them (however tense these contacts may be) ?
I'd like to know if you can feel/know if there is a difference between the Palestinian people and the Palestinian terrorists.

Or is there no way you can talk to any of them at any given moment ?

[The Mad Monk]

Uh, Siro...that post I made was in support of Israel...

I was talking about the Europosters here that are always saying "Don't oppress the Palistineans! Arrest the ones that are actually committing the Tarracts!"

Of course, when the Israelis actually go in to arrest terrorists in the camps, it's all "Shame on the Israelis, pushing around the refugees like that!"

Just clarifying my POV

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by MrFun
Don't mind me Siro -- I'm just bored.

I understood that very well

I'm just in that "pretend I'm a spokesman on CNN" mood

But for the record, I have always sympathized with Israel for the most part.

Thanks, that's nice to hear.

Although, please don't think that anyone's political opinions affect my view on them.

I mean, sure I can think some people are silly or incredibly blind - but that doesn't affect my every day contact (or lack there of) with them.

I like Imran and Ramo and Che and Kropotkin and Gnu and many such anti-Israeli posters.

Palestinians are suffering, but I still find myself sympathizing with Israel.

Because Israelis are suffering too.

I clearly understand that the Palestinians are suffering more. But I attribute most of that to their leadership, which is corrupt, totalitarian, and knowingly and intentionally makes them targets of Israeli retaliations.

You can trust me that I think of dozens of scenarios "what would I do if I were PM" in regards to the situation on the ground.

It also saddens me that there are IDF soldiers who behave in inhumane fashion and are bullies. I certainly don't think it represents most of the Israeli society or Israeli army.

Anyway, carry on about the predictive cycle of the Middle East crisis.

Thank you.

....

Oh wait, you're not a moderator.

[abort suckup squence]