Arafat an enemy - a cease fire suggestion that came too late

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by CapTVK
No thanks, statistics are already my job...

Go check some old cold war era newspapers. Oh yeah, old 50-60's USSR statistics have a large margin of error. Even those for the IMF..it's all about definitions and applying differing methods of measurement...(which definitely goes for China today btw, their growth figures still remain impressive despite this)

Ok, how could growth rate statistics be possibly that different from the truth?

How is it possible to ruin them so much?

There are public registers. You check how many children are born per year, how many children are there per family.

[Az]

The joke was very funny, albeit portraying a sad reality in countries in which traditional islamic rules are upheld.

even around here ,were people that do such things are sent to jail , this goes on. A man killed his sister , because it was discovered that she wasn't a virgin when she married. IDIOTS!!!

I know you don't believe in this . At least I hope so.

CapTVK:

note the statistics from Israel , where the arab population , even arguably facing discrimination ( which is IMO , only as much as all other rural cities), they are way better than the vast majority of other countries. the population grew from 160,000, to over 1,000,000 in a period of a bit more that 50 years.

So what do you say , that the statistics are wrong? totally? everywhere?


CyberGnu : can't answer now, time for my kitten torture session.Nah , make it a poor palestinian boy torture session.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Ok, how could growth rate statistics be possibly that different from the truth?

How is it possible to ruin them so much?

There are lies, there are d*mn lies, and then there are statistics.

[BlackStone]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Apparently, we need to come up with a definition of the terms guerrila & terrorist.

Here's my attaempt at it:

Guerrila: Guerrilas are irregular soldiers who wage war on regular military forces, secret police agencies, and governmental counter-insurgency police units. Guerrilas do not prefer civilian targets. They do not conciously select civilian victims.

Terrorist: Terrorists target weak and defenseless civilians: old men, women, children--anyone in fact except soldiers--if they can avoid it.

I'll let you choose which is the more respectable form of warfare.

I think that your definitions are right. There is a problem when we start to lump all groups in together. Afterall when Israeli soldiers are targeted it is still refered to as terrorism. It does seem strange to talk about the taking of life in acceptable and unacceptable terms, but if we are to sit in judgement some acts must always be seen as unacceptable given any provocation, and that is the targeting of civilians through direct means, intent, and through deliberate use on indescriminate weapons and strategies.

[BlackStone]

Oh by the way Happy Passover, I have just remembered .

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
and I apparently forgot how stealing someones land and then calling them terrorists when they try to take it back is all right and just.

Again, how exactly did we "steal" it?

We purchased parts of it.

And later parts of it were allocated to us by the UN.

Now, we had no problems if the arabs had chosen to stay there.

They themselves chose to leave, knowing that the Arab countries would try and cleanse us.

So how is that us stealing their lands?

And contemplate that a few miles from you there are 5 million people who cannot do this mainly because you reserve that right for yourself....

In my country, there are 1 million palestinians who can do that, if they agreed to have pipes laid in their villages.

In the territories, there are some 1 - 2 million people who have been prevented from leaving their camps by their own leaders.

In Lebanon Syria and Jordan there are some 1 million people who have been prevented from showering and eating by the local authorities.

And then ask yourself why they are angry... So angry that they are willing to die if only they get a good chance of taking one your people with them...

If they are so ****ing angry then there is no hope for peace.

think about that before you apologize for the next Israeli murder.

Yes, I'll think alot before I appologize for the next terrorist we assassinated, who otherwise would have killed me.

I can't go to a cafe. I can't go to school. I can't take a walk. I will be blown up to bits if I do.

Think about that before you justify another palestinian terract.

Not that I expect it to do much good. Not that I want to inslut you personally, but I expect that for someone who has been indoctrinated into jewish supremacy and the right to stolen land, other peoples suffering propably won't do much to faze you...

Here goes jewish supremacy again.

That "stolen land" is a result of the war.
And the arabs can't expect that they would start a cleansing war on us, but if it fails, we revert the situation as if it never hapenned.

We agreed already to compensate them. We agreed to return them most of the land we captured in 1967. We agreed to compensate them for the rest.

They wanted more, so they again started killing innocent civilans.

I don't mind that they wanted more. At the time, I was ready to give more.

But when they use terror as a pressure strategy, they lose all right to demand anything.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Waku
Sure, how many muslims are there?

What does that relate to?

[CapTVK]

If only if people took the time to read. I made a reference to the RED THREAT, the red (communist) threat was an argument used by western nations that communists would outnumber us due to their population growth.



And returning to statistics....Numbers themselves don't lie, the people who use them can twist them anyway they want however.

[Az]

indiscriminate weapons? now you're going to mention F-16s again. THEY ARE NOT INDISCRIMINATE.

and you damn well know that Israel doesn't try to kill civilians. Can we agree on that ?

We can also agree that there should be a palestinian state , and a jewish state here, right?

So I guess let's keep spamming.

[Sirotnikov]

Explain to me, again, what actions do you consider 'stealing arab land'.

[Eli]

Question unrelated to everything here :

I heard about some Palestinian uprising in Egypt that happened few decades ago and that Egypt stopped it by shooting with sub machine guns into crowds and killing 400 Palestinians protestors. Does someone has more information about it? Like what caused the uprising, how widespread it was, etc?

[Waku]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
You so far, have not brought one thing which isn't based on prejudice.

don't you have any casualties statistic handy?

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Then you involve the religious factor which is completely irrelevant to this political thing. but your prejudic tells you it's a religious conflict.

it is not. Name a war facing more religious fanatics.

Originally posted by Sirotnikov Then, again, based on your prejudice, you blaim me for thinking of myself as a "chosen one".

I referred to Mr Sharon, but you take it personally. And you get mad very easily, you idiot! (i still owes u one)

[Eli]

Edit : My mistake.

[BlackStone]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
indiscriminate weapons? now you're going to mention F-16s again. THEY ARE NOT INDISCRIMINATE.

and you damn well know that Israel doesn't try to kill civilians. Can we agree on that ?

We can also agree that there should be a palestinian state , and a jewish state here, right?

So I guess let's keep spamming.

Steady son, steady. I think you have got the words of another argument still ringing in your ears. It was a definition, don`t read in what isn`t there.

Yes I do not believe that it is Israeli policy to target civilians, but when Sharon talks about making it unbearable for the other side and I look at the distribution of casualties, I do wonder if everyone on the Israeli side is singing from the same hymm sheet. Just so I am not mis understood "I do not believe that Israel deliberately targets civilians"

And F `16s can be indecriminates. It all depends how they are used. A good bench mark for how much care is being used is to ask how much of the same tactics would be used in a Jew populated area, and that will ussually give you your answer.


And Spam ..how dar you, these are pearls of wisdom I am giving you here red boy...pearls

[Az]

Originally posted by BlackStone
Oh by the way Happy Passover, I have just remembered .

Thanks!

oh, btw, it's time for my ham and cheese sandwich