Slavery reparations

[MrFun]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Hey smart guy, I never said blacks are well off today because of slavery, I'm saying it's an undisputable fact that on the whole they are better off here than they would be in Africa - which still doesn't justify slavery, but these people (as well as others) have eaten up billions upon billions in terms of social services and such, why should they get more?

1) Welfare never helps people living in poverty to move into the middle class, so don't say that welfare recipients are living the easy life. It sucks for people to remain in poverty and on welfare, or the working class -- but you probably would never know that.

2) The reason blacks would be better off here than Africa, is simply because the states of Africa were deprived of their independent development through Arabic exploitation of Africa, European colonialism, and complacency/support of African rulers in the slave trade.

3) Just because they're better off in this country than Africa, does not mean that we should not seriously consider an effective way to implement some kind of slavery reparations program.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by David Floyd
My solution would be to give anyone who wanted it free passage back to Africa, but anyone who chose to stay is out of luck on reparations - we take the fact that they live in the US and have received and continue to receive billions in social services/welfare, and call it even.

How, exactly, does that make it even?

[David Floyd]

1) Welfare never helps people living in poverty to move into the middle class, so don't say that welfare recipients are living the easy life. It sucks for people to remain in poverty and on welfare, or the working class -- but you probably would never know that.

Hey I agree - I wanna end welfare. But the point is since they've already robbed us blind, enough is enough.

2) The reason blacks would be better off here than Africa, is simply because the states of Africa were deprived of their independent development through Arabic exploitation of Africa, European colonialism, and complacency/support of African rulers in the slave trade.

What does that have to with anything? I dunno which fancy logical fallacy that is, but I know it is one

3) Just because they're better off in this country than Africa, does not mean that we should not seriously consider an effective way to implement some kind of slavery reparations program.

Yes it does, when taken together with the rest of my argument.

[David Floyd]

How, exactly, does that make it even?

Because even if I were to concede that blacks were still economically hurt because of slavery, our bull**** social programs, dollar for dollar in the last half of the 20th Century would equal or exceed whatever value you want to bring out regarding current consequences of slavery.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Hey I agree - I wanna end welfare. But the point is since they've already robbed us blind, enough is enough.


What does that have to with anything? I dunno which fancy logical fallacy that is, but I know it is one


Yes it does, when taken together with the rest of my argument.

You misunderstand -- I NEVER want the welfare program abolished. It needs to be revamped or improved to make it effective. In conjunction with job training and other commitment requirements, welfare needs to be temporary and help people get OUT OF poverty.

quote:

2) The reason blacks would be better off here than Africa, is simply because the states of Africa were deprived of their independent development through Arabic exploitation of Africa, European colonialism, and complacency/support of African rulers in the slave trade.

Why don't you understand the above quote of mine??
Africa has permanently been affected by European colonialism, Arabic exploitation, and internal support of the slave trade. You cannot ignore historical factors.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Because even if I were to concede that blacks were still economically hurt because of slavery, our bull**** social programs, dollar for dollar in the last half of the 20th Century would equal or exceed whatever value you want to bring out regarding current consequences of slavery.

Bull**** social programs? How exactly are those reparations for slavery?

They've "robbed us blind"? Dear lord, if you were any more of a pot, I'd cook pasta in you.

[David Floyd]

Why don't you understand the above quote of mine??
Africa has permanently been affected by European colonialism, Arabic exploitation, and internal support of the slave trade. You cannot ignore historical factors.

Slavery in America has zip to do with European colonial policies, and you know it.
You could also say the Irish got screwed by Oliver Cromwell, and Eastern Europe got ****ed by Attila the Hun, but that still has nothing to do with anything.

[David Floyd]

Bull**** social programs? How exactly are those reparations for slavery?

Whoever said I did? My point was that it's not as if these people are hurting for survival or comfort, especially when stacked up against Africans.

They've "robbed us blind"? Dear lord, if you were any more of a pot, I'd cook pasta in you.

Well I certainly feel robbed everytime some receieves a welfare check or food stamp. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way - you consent to this theft and I do not.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MrFun
1) Welfare never helps people living in poverty to move into the middle class, so don't say that welfare recipients are living the easy life. It sucks for people to remain in poverty and on welfare, or the working class -- but you probably would never know that.

Mr. Fun, why is welfare even relevent in this instance? But now that you mention it, if people want to recieve reperations from the government they should be stripped of any and all acess to social welfare programs for the rest of thier natural life.

[Lung]

Originally posted by MrFun

2) The reason blacks would be better off here than Africa, is simply because the states of Africa were deprived of their independent development through Arabic exploitation of Africa, European colonialism, and complacency/support of African rulers in the slave trade.

Have a look at Africa and tell me that it would have done better left to it's own devices I don't think it's because they're black, per se, but the proof is in the pudding - Africa is the basketcase of planet earth, and it shows no signs of abating.

I won't draw any conclusions, but the facts speak for themselves.

[David Floyd]

Mr. Fun, why is welfare even relevent in this instance? But now that you mention it, if people want to recieve reperations from the government they should be stripped of any and all acess to social welfare programs for the rest of thier natural life.

The problem there, of course, is that this lawsuit isn't about righting a wrong nearly as much as it is about money and greed.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Mr. Fun, why is welfare even relevent in this instance? But now that you mention it, if people want to recieve reperations from the government they should be stripped of any and all acess to social welfare programs for the rest of thier natural life.

*cough* Not from government... from corporations... *cough*

(Although, the Green in me wants to say, "Corporations are the government!")

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Guynemer
*cough* Not from government... from corporations... *cough*

You might want to read the first sentence of my post and that cough sounds nasty. Maybe you could get Strangelove to treat you.

[Lung]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Slavery in America has zip to do with European colonial policies, and you know it.
You could also say the Irish got screwed by Oliver Cromwell, and Eastern Europe got ****ed by Attila the Hun, but that still has nothing to do with anything.

Absolutely. Making excuses for your own predicament and blaming everyone else only cements yourself in your rut. Look at Mugabe. He actively encourages rape, murder, torture, and every other form of violence at his disposal to suit his own political agenda and blames colonialism as an excuse to committ atrocities against mankind

Still, i don't entirely share your opinion on welfare because compassion is the basis of civilisation and you wouldn't be better off if it didn't exist anyway. You can lead a horse to water (welfare) but you can't make it drink (socialism)

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


You might want to read the first sentence of my post and that cough sounds nasty. Maybe you could get Strangelove to treat you.

Not following about your first sentence.

About the cough... are you kidding? I'm in med school; I know firsthand what a big crock modern medicine is.