"Darwin's Dangerous Disciple"

[Guynemer]

We really ought to know better... my fault too...

Don't feed the troll!

[David Floyd]

[Logical Realist]

And also in South Vietnam - but this is what I would call a victimless crime as they aren't hurting anyone.

Actually these "protestors" tend to bring certain members of their family along with them. One including an 11 year old girl that I doubt was prepared to "protest" by burning herself with her Falun Gong elders.

As for Christians while I can't name many suicide bombers I can name cases where Christians killed themselves and other for their religion in cases of: Jonestown,the Branch Davidians, the Crusades, the Inquisition, Witch Trials, Lebanon, anti-homosexual/bisexual hate crimes and the bombing of abortion clinics that continue to this day. As a matter of fact, shortly after 9/11- Planned Parenthood recieved 170 hate letters containing a powdery substance.

Notice how Bush has called the attack on Afghanistan a "crusade".

As for the Jewish faith, there is Goldstein(a physicist) who shot thirty muslims in prayer...while in a mosque. Decked out in full Jewish garb.He knew he'd never get out of there alive and he didn't.

[Logical Realist]

Exactly, and they were condemned by Muslims worldwide.

Not really, and even if they were "condemed", the violence is justifiable in the Islamic religion(if they can say it was in defense of Islam). For more information on this I suggest you go to this site made by former Muslims: http://golshan.com/

[Logical Realist]

And what about the fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie? Or the execution of Dr. Younus Shaikh for the crime of blasphemy in Pakistan? Those recieve condemnations as well?

In fact why don't Muslims seem to be condeming policies that makes blasphemy a crime punishable by death in Muslim countries like Pakistan?

[Seeker]

The Children's Crusade was one of those fascinating enthusiasms that swept across Europe occasionally.

A kid in northern France claimed that St.X appeared to him in a vision and said that he would deliver Jerusalem to him, and that they could walk there. Supposedly, God would part the Meditteranean and allow them to walk...

A lot of stupid kids believed, and a huge mob or 'army' of children gathered and slowly moved south, enduring all sorts of hardships and miss-haps. They were a great nuisance to the locals because they ate everything when they moved through.

They actually made it to where Marseille is today, but God failed to part the sea and a diverse number of horrible fates awaited. Most were enslaved, or sold by the local lord, some burnt for heresy or false prophecy, a lot starved, got sick, and died. The rest went home.

I believe at one point they were following a duck or goose (a divine messenger).

[Kropotkin]

We also have the Kamikaze-pilots... Although they, in general at least, didn't target civilians.

[David Floyd]

Actually these "protestors" tend to bring certain members of their family along with them. One including an 11 year old girl that I doubt was prepared to "protest" by burning herself with her Falun Gong elders.

Can you cite that? It's certainly possible, but I hadn't heard that before.

As for Christians while I can't name many suicide bombers I can name cases where Christians killed themselves and other for their religion in cases of: Jonestown,the Branch Davidians, the Crusades, the Inquisition, Witch Trials, Lebanon, anti-homosexual/bisexual hate crimes and the bombing of abortion clinics that continue to this day. As a matter of fact, shortly after 9/11- Planned Parenthood recieved 170 hate letters containing a powdery substance.

I wouldn't call most of that terrorism. I'll break it down:
Jonestown - can't place it right offhand
Branch Davidians - these guys did nothing wrong, although the US federal government did
Crusades - War, not terrorism, and we can find plenty of non-Christian examples of war
Inquisition - counter-example is the Holocaust, which was non-Christian and much, much worse
Witch Trials - You have me there I guess, except in that Christians today don't do that
Lebanon - Again, plent of non-Christian counterexamples
Anti-homosexual/bisexual hate crimes and the bombing of abortion clinics - Counter-example: Oklahoma City

Look, I'll concede that people commit and have commited crimes and started wars in the name of religion if you concede that the most costly wars of the past few hundred years have not been about religion at all and that the majority of murderers, for example, are areligious.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Seeker
They actually made it to where Marseille is today, but God failed to part the sea and a diverse number of horrible fates awaited. Most were enslaved, or sold by the local lord, some burnt for heresy or false prophecy, a lot starved, got sick, and died. The rest went home.

Did any drown? I am picturing them walking into the sea like a bunch of lemmings...

[David Floyd]

Not really, and even if they were "condemed", the violence is justifiable in the Islamic religion(if they can say it was in defense of Islam). For more information on this I suggest you go to this site made by former Muslims

I saw plenty of Islamic clergy on TV condemning 9/11.

And what about the fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie? Or the execution of Dr. Younus Shaikh for the crime of blasphemy in Pakistan? Those recieve condemnations as well?

I don't see how this relates, honestly. You went from talking about people committing suicide bombings for religion to telling me about the internal affairs of Pakistan.

In fact why don't Muslims seem to be condeming policies that makes blasphemy a crime punishable by death in Muslim countries like Pakistan?

See above.

[Logical Realist]

Well the point is that if one is going to say that mass murder is the fault of religion, I can make plent of counter-examples.

All under Marxist dogma which is much more like religion than not. Especially under cruel dictators like Stalin.

Oklahoma City

Which was set up by a Christian.

counter-example is the Holocaust, which was non-Christian and much, much worse

Actually Hitler was a Catholic and many Nazis believed in God. Hitler at one point went so far as to say the "we need believing people" because atheism lacks a moral underpinning.

[David Floyd]

All under Marxist dogma which is much more like religion than not. Especially under cruel dictators like Stalin.

Maybe but these people were atheists.

Which was set up by a Christian.

So? It wasn't in the name of God or anything.

Actually Hitler was a Catholic and many Nazis believed in God. Hitler at one point went so far as to say the "we need believing people" because atheism lacks a moral underpinning.

Hitler was about as religious as the Easter Bunny, and whatever he said was for political propaganda only.

[Logical Realist]

I saw plenty of Islamic clergy on TV condemning 9/11.

Of course some would, they were in serious trouble. What was their basis for doing so though? None really. And btw I bring up Pakistani law in order to illustrate typical Islamic policy which these same Clergy men for some reason feel reluctant to bring up and condem. That to me sounds like hypocrisy and a subversion of the truth on what is going on in Islam.

[David Floyd]

Of course some would, they were in serious trouble. What was their basis for doing so though? None really. And btw I bring up Pakistani law in order to illustrate typical Islamic policy which these same Clergy men for some reason feel reluctant to bring up and condem. That to me sounds like hypocrisy and a subversion of the truth on what is going on in Islam.

Or maybe they really believed 9/11 was wrong - neither of us are mind-readers.

[Logical Realist]

Or maybe they really believed 9/11 was wrong

I'm pretty sure a lot of them did. But that doesn't mean that the action violated Islamic principles or that Islam is a religion of peace.