The number of Jews in the world will fall by 33% by 2050

[Eli]

Oooooooooh crap. Next time I should spend more than 15 seconds to read stuff.

But still, they way I understand it, according to the growth rate there should be 18million Jews, but because of inter marriage there will be only 12million.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh


...and they have the cheek to compare me with Haider!

If you believe in restricting who people are allowed to marry based on ethnicity or religion, then you are and evil bastard who I will fight 'til my dieing breath.....

Well you have your work cut out for you then. I reckon that you will be overwhelmed and killed on your own block long before you can ever get around to Israel.

[Docfeelgood]

My wife is Catholic.
My children are being raised as Catholic.

Hmmmm....may be some truth to this decline.

[Natan]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh


...and they have the cheek to compare me with Haider!

If you believe in restricting who people are allowed to marry based on ethnicity or religion, then you are an evil bastard who I will fight 'til my dieing breath.....

There's a difference between restricting who people are allowed to marry and saying that people should restrict who they marry - I think Siro is clearly arguing for the former and not the latter.

Eli: What the demographer claimed was that the number could be either depending on which way the birth and assimilation rates go. My guess is that between Habad and Lev L'achim there will be more Jews in the world in 2050 then there are today.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Asher
Which is why I said it's your country,and you can do what you want, but don't be surprised when people get pissed off at you for it.

Why do you have a right to be pissed at me if I live in my country according to my values?

It was in reply to the "don't be surprised if you get attacked" part.

Umm...I'm sorry.
Could you repeat that?
Hitler's goal to create a SuperRace was honorable?

Erm, you're right honorable was a bad word for it.

But again, I don't mind if he wanted to have his own little super race. As long as it doesn't bother me. When he decided that another of his goals is to make sure no one but the super race has right to live - this is where I say no.

I'm very tempted to slip in a comment here on how Israel was formed and how people were hurt by that, but I'll refrain.

People were hurt not because Israel decided to ethnically cleanse the land, but because war was declared by the neighbouring arab nations, and as a result, in the war, many arabs and almost as much jews suffered. Some were slaughtered, and some banished and some fled.

It happens in a war.

You certainly can't blame Israel of wanting to cleanse this area. Actions which could fall under that category followed, but they were caused by the war. Israel didn't start the war with the cleansing goal in mind, nor did it start it anyway. The arabs did, and they, as they've declared, had the goal of cleansing jews from Palestina.

Wait.
Arab plans to live there alone?
Aren't you the ones that only let Jews in your country?

Not exact. You're talking about territory of a country, while I'm talking about a territory of land.

If you'd like to draw a parallel between the conflict in 1947, you need the scene where Israel opposes any palestinian form of self government or declaration. And Israel does not oppose this, so there's no comparison.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Why do you have a right to be pissed at me if I live in my country according to my values?

Because in my country we believe in freedom of speech.
Doesn't yours?

It was in reply to the "don't be surprised if you get attacked" part.

Right, but we don't deny immigrants based on religion. Duh?

You certainly can't blame Israel of wanting to cleanse this area. Actions which could fall under that category followed, but they were caused by the war. Israel didn't start the war with the cleansing goal in mind, nor did it start it anyway. The arabs did, and they, as they've declared, had the goal of cleansing jews from Palestina.

That's right, it's all the Arabs' fault.

Not exact. You're talking about territory of a country, while I'm talking about a territory of land.

And here I was thinking a country's territory is defined by the land (and sea) it occupies.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Asher


Right, that's absolutely right.

You're not getting my point.

I'm not saying the palestinian conflict is not related to it. It is.

What I'm saying is, that Judaism being an ethnical group is a fact which is not affected by the existance of Israel, or the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

Civilized and rational? You just said Hitler's goal of a Master Race was "honorable".

I meant to say something else. It's a bad translation.

It should have said acceptable.

Whether it is nice and moral or not, if anyone wants to seclude himself from the rest of the world - so be it. He wanted to create a pure german race. Fine. The best of luck. I don't see why I should be concerned with it.

It's the part where he has to kill the jews, homos, gypsies and enslave the slavs which is actually bad and can not be allowed.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
His goal -an ethnically pure German state of a few hundred millions- was not achievable without hurting others.

My conviction deepens that Zionists are the Jewish version of the Aryan Nations.

I can't talk to you people.

Stop twisting what I say. You're hearing what you want to hear.

Again.

Creating a race of pure germans doesn't hurt anyone.
Killing the rest does.

I don't have a problem with A. I have a problem with B.

Perhaps they didn´t want to live as a minority in their own land under a statehood created for a different culture and religion?

That's why the partition plans were offered.

To allow both ethnical groups to live as a majority with in their own land under their own statehood.

And while Israel still has no problems with a Palestinian state, arabs had, and some still have a problem with Israel even existing.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
Ehhh, yes. But I have also heard that Jews have often become victims of nationalism; so I wouldn´t have expected them to be extremely fond of the concept.

That's where you're wrong.

Jews were victims of Racism under extreme-nationalism. They've been also victims of Racism under communism as well.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
If you love someone, in my opinion, you should go ahead and get with that person-- you don't owe that much to socierty that you should be forced to pick a certain mate for it.

I agree.

But if someone decides in advance that he only wants to marry jewish, it's his right.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
...and they have the cheek to compare me with Haider!

Yes I do, since you seemed very fond of the idea that there will be less jews in the world.

What's that if not anti-semitism?

If you believe in restricting who people are allowed to marry based on ethnicity or religion, then you are an evil bastard who I will fight 'til my dieing breath.....

I don't blieve in restricting it.

What I do believe is in a person's right to decide for himself who he wants to marry without society saying he's a racist.

Again, if hitler wanted to collect a bunch of people who are arians and mostly only wish to marry with arians - go ahead. If he wants an arian state - ask for one.

That's not the same as physically clearing out the not-arians, and has nothing wrong with it. That's how ethnical nations work.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Asher
Because in my country we believe in freedom of speech.
Doesn't yours?

That's a non-sequitor.
You are talking about your right to have an opinion.

I'm talking about, why the hell how I choose to live my life should concern you, as long as I don't hurt anyone as a result?

And no, the pal-isr conflict is not a result of zionism in the sense that zionism doesn't have to lead to it - had the arabs agreed to devide the land among us.

Right, but we don't deny immigrants based on religion. Duh?

You deny them based on social status. That's so much more moral

And back from my non-sequitor, what has that got to do with me replying to your text descibing how I shouldn't be surprised of your agression over my way of life.

That's right, it's all the Arabs' fault.

That was a very mature and a very well explained and suported answer.

Yes, in the root of it, had arabs decided to compromise, the present would be very different.

And here I was thinking a country's territory is defined by the land (and sea) it occupies.

But we're still talking about different things.

I'm not condeming arabs for not wanting to have jews in arab countries.

I'm condeming them for not wanting to give jews a country, in a relatively less arab peace of land.

[Asher]

Siro, maybe you should go back to reading about kinky sex acts.

It's pathetic how you're trying to rationalize some of this stuff, stop while you're only several laps behind.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
That's a non-sequitor.
You are talking about your right to have an opinion.

I'm talking about, why the hell how I choose to live my life should concern you, as long as I don't hurt anyone as a result?

And no, the pal-isr conflict is not a result of zionism in the sense that zionism doesn't have to lead to it - had the arabs agreed to devide the land among us.

How you choose to live your life has nothing to do with how your government works.

I don't know where to begin with your argument.
Why don't you agree to give the Arabs half of your land then, to divide the land among you?

Christ, think about it fo a while.

You deny them based on social status. That's so much more moral

We do?
We do no such thing.
We admit people who have the skills required to obtain jobs so they don't go on welfare and drain tax money.
That's ENTIRELY different from refusing people to become citizens based on which cult they belong to.

And back from my non-sequitor, what has that got to do with me replying to your text descibing how I shouldn't be surprised of your agression over my way of life.

Read what I responded to, and apply what's known as "comprehension", then figure it out.

That was a very mature and a very well explained and suported answer.

Why should I argue with someone brainwashed?
There's no way in hell you'll admit otherwise in the argument.

Yes, in the root of it, had arabs decided to compromise, the present would be very different.

So why are you fighting over the Gaza Strip?

But we're still talking about different things.

I'm not condeming arabs for not wanting to have jews in arab countries.

I'm condeming them for not wanting to give jews a country, in a relatively less arab peace of land.

You're condeming them for fighting for land which you claim is yours but isn't really yours in the first place.

You can keep justifying it, but I think it's bull****.

Jews are completely welcome in America, Canada, anywhere in the commonwealth, and basically anywhere in the world.

Why did you need to go make your own country based upon religious values?

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
...and they have the cheek to compare me with Haider!

Welcome in the club!

Everybody who criticises either the US or Zionism or, God forbid, both, is compared to Haider these days.

This is too much of a compliment for Haider!

The guy is quite a jerk, really.