The number of Jews in the world will fall by 33% by 2050

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Asher

Armed with knowledge of history and the 30s in Nazi Germany, it's entirely unlikely that'll happen anymore.

Especially with things like the internet and other forms of communications which can't be censored like how Nazi Germany worked.

People are kidding themselves if they honestly believe a modern western government could ever get away with genocide in these times.

Major societal changes can happen. And Israel also helps the world not forget the Holocaust.

Also: Israel was necessary in 1948. Now it has to exist because of the 6,000,000 Jews there.

[Ramo]

We both accept that Israel does have a right to exist.

Nope, I don't agree that any state has a right to exist.

As to the immigration policies, they are necessary for Israel to fulfil its purpose. Without right of return, Israel is useless as a refuge for Jews.

Not if the society and government were libertarian.

I personally do not think that Jewish values are what is being defended but rather Jewish lives.

By antagonizing the rest of the world? I don't think so...

Identity doesn't do to badly either, but with identity alone there would be no reason for an Israelm or at least no good enough reason to endure all this crap.

[Goingonit]

Not if the society and government were libertarian.

But you can't enforce a libertarian government involuntarily. That would be contradictory: "You must be free! I command you!"

[Ramo]

Note I also wrote libertarian (i.e. socialist) society. A libertarian gov't naturally follows from such a society.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Ramo
Note I also wrote libertarian (i.e. socialist) society. A libertarian gov't naturally follows from such a society.

But it's not. And you can't make them be.

[Eli]

Unlike someone said :

Non Jews can get citizenship using all the standard procedures like in every other country.
Jews get automatic citizenship.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Eli
Unlike someone said :

Non Jews can get citizenship using all the standard procedures like in every other country.
Jews get automatic citizenship.

That doesn't sound bad, then.

Thanks for clearing that up, Eli.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Yeah, the guy does have stamina, I'll give him that.

hehe
not stamina
more like, being stubborn like a donkey

plus i stopped sleeping and doing any HW long time ago

also i love history, morality, poltical science and arguing.



so this is heaven for me.

[Ramo]

And you can't make them be.

That's the whole point.

But it's not.

So? Everyone has a choice. When the founders of Israel bought up feudal estates in Palestine, and ejected the natives who lived there for centuries off of their land, rather than abolishing the state of feudalism, they chose coercion. It's up to today's Israelis to choose freedom, but unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be what they want either.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Asher
So when will you be removing your tanks?

as soon as you jail the really important terrorists.
not the small fish.

Yes, that's right. I am victim to Palestinian propoganda day in and day out, and that's why I can't form the correct conclusion that it's the Arabs who are always out of line and it's the Israelis who are the perfect victim in a war with worthless Arabs. Please forgive me.

I don't forgive you

You just can't see that since you're brainwashed (sounds familiar? )

All the news services around here are pro-Israeli. You are right, there is a certain spin on it.

You'd think they are, but they aren't really.

What they do, is take the half truths, and try to justify them for Israel. Admittedly, having seen that, it looks pretty hard to believe.

If only you could watch Israeli TV

That's bull****. Seriously.

Having lived in America and Canada with Jewish friends, I know there's no anti-semitism feelings rampant. CERTAINLY less than what you'll get in the middle east.

Try living here before commenting on that.
[/q]
Having lost several relatives who also lived in areas where anti-semitism wasn't too rampant in the 10s and 20s, I would not count on it again.

Do you have any evidence for that?
Not that I'd ever live in France or Germany though.

Well, I think i read it somewhere

Ah, yes, you're right. It is entirely likely that Canada, for example, will become a fascist empire and the government will exterminate all Jews.

Could happen.

Canada is evil and such. Everyone knows that

Anyway, are you inviting 5,000,000 jews to canada?

why not invite the pals ?

So instead you relocate to the middle east?

Yeah, I know.

Things haven't worked out the way we planned.

Not only are they arabs here now, they are pesky too. Unwilling to compromise and growing like rabbits.

Either when this generation dies out, either after WWIII, this problem will be solved.

It wasn't I who made the comment on nationality. Pay attention.

You do have a right to make your own country, nobody argued that. I'm just saying that when you make your own country based around a race of people, and restrict your immigration to people of that same race, it's racist. Fact is fact, spin it as you like.

It's an opinion.

If catelonians make their own state for catelonians, will it be racist in your opnion? if so - i generally disagree with you.

if no - there's still something in israel that we haven't cleared out.

I wasn't aware race was a requirement for immigration in those examples. Enlighten me.

I would imagine brittish for example, or pakistanis, wouldn't be invited to those countries.

Oh, I'm certainly aware of it.
Why would you think I'm not aware of it?

Cause you act so sure of yourself

Why would I discuss other nationalities when this thread is about Israelis? You'd care call me racist over that?

Ok, point taken.

But then again, you still haven't answered whether you'd see a catelonian state which gives right of immiration to catalonians as racist.

I have many controversial political views. That's why I usually stay out of the political threads.

hehe
usually not

you think microsoft are good - for god's sake - you're sick

Have you heard my rant about the UK with Ireland?

not yet.

I'd love if you start a thread about it.

Or any of my African rants?

no... I haven't

Or even many of the southern states?

I can't understand how i felt you were a petty small individual

fire away at those countries

I have dissatisfaction with countries with many races. Don't pin me as racist because I don't approve of Israel.

well I have seen you stating things only about israel, and not stating it in general form too much.

and when you did, you avoided examples.

again, kurdish state that allows free kurdish immigration. is that racist?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Ramo
Jewish atheists may not share the same values as religious Jews. In fact, you don't know anything about their values in advance. Why don't you refuse to admit them into your country?

Orthodox Jews may not share the same values as more liberal Jews. Why don't you refuse one of these groups entry?

Sure we do know things about their values.

While they implement it differently, the basic values are the same across judaism, and traditions are strong, even among atheists.

finally, even atheists were persecuted over being jewish, so they may need this country's protection.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Siro has been bul****ing us all along.

here he is in a peace demo. (the one with the beard - center)

now you have a pic of me

btw, soon i'll post pics from the field trip to judea desert.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Asher

It's land. Dirt. Get over it.

tell it to 1,000,000,000 muslims.
or something like that.

Don't give me that.
Homosexuals have been bullied and murdered for centuries as well, do you see homosexuals going and creating their own country incase a whacko comes into power?

that actually could be a good idea.
and i'd support it if they really wanted it.

i'm sure red_jon is alreadu making preparations to host congress of world gays at his house

There's simply no way in hell a modern western government will get away with antisemitism. Really. The UN would act, NATO would act, the citizens would react. Stop it with the paranoid "we need our own country to survive!" bull****.

You never know what may happen.

Jews decided to defend themselves for themselves.

And anyway, you need a country making technology progress other than norway usa and japan.

you wouldn' have php or icq if not us so

[Ramo]

Sure we do know things about their values.

While they implement it differently, the basic values are the same across judaism, and traditions are strong, even among atheists.

What are these "basic values," and why don't Moslems or atheistic Arabs share them?

How does a single ethnicity automatically share a set of values? Are these values genetically programmed into these Jewish ubermensch?

finally, even atheists were persecuted over being jewish, so they may need this country's protection.

What does this have to do with "Jewish" values?

again, kurdish state that allows free kurdish immigration. is that racist?

If it excludes non-Kurds, absolutely.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Ramo
Accepting Israel is not the same thing as accepting its biggotted immigration policies. Nor is it the same thing as accepting Palestinian exploitation. Unless, of course, you consider Israel to embody one of these two principles.

ok, point taken though i disagree

Siro claimed that Israel's immigration policies defend Jewish values. Quite evidently, that's bull****. And Hitler is not a refutation.

but they do defend jewish values.

if the country was to be over run by a non-jewish majority, it would lose it's jewish "color'. jewish laws would not apply to most and would be revoked. and so on.

thus meaning an end to the whole point of a jewish state.

I agree with your desire to be independent of tyrants. The thing is, you, your religion, and your ethnicity are not special in this regard. You do not have the right to coerce citizens into not entering into contracts with people not of your ethnicity or religion.

where did i suggest that?
what i kept saying is that jews shouldn't be criticized if they only want to marry jewish.

Maybe states shouldn't have so much authority, in the first place.

Then chaos would ensue an one point or another.

and anyway, israel is far from being that authoritarian. it infact is often lax in enforcing laws, esp. since policemen have to search bombs all the time.