Resolved: All the world's problems are Europe's fault.

[ZoboZeWarrior]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by The Andy-Man
what europe did up till 19th C is, for the time, not to harsh (when you consider britain aboloshied slavery in 1830, the first country to do so). [\QUOTE]

Not true but not false either. France did it during when revolution (1790) as at the beginning. But Slavery get back legal when revolution collapsed some very few decades after.

So where for an instant the first country to abolish slavery.

But England had taken first some militar actions against slavery.

[Saint Marcus]

and far more dangerous then you realize.

He's a danger to the world alright, smart or dumb.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


He's a danger to the world alright, smart or dumb.

Sme problem with the Dutch. Haven't you people ever heard of the Dutch Tulip Market? It was the dot.com economy of their day, until one fine day said "Hey! it's a f--king Tulip!" and the European economy went under.

So, don't mess with the Dutch, otherwise they'll create a floral market and then destroy you.

[Roland]

Which point ?

Chris:

"We both know that France will always follow the money, so the uproar about there sudden appearence of backbone is absurd."

The money ? That's new to me... Rather a confused notion of glory and importance. At least that's my impression and more in line with the origins and backgrounds of the political elite...

"You do often gloss over salient points that hurt Europe's image, and have an...let's say "interesting" view of US politics."

I'm a dedicated cynic. Example for "gloss over" ? I'm just somewhat inclined to go against the anti-european propaganda in the US... and when the US state department is dumb enough to criticise Austria over the treatment of religious groups (which is really a total no-problem apart from one application by Yehova's witnesses; maybe too much scientology lobbying) and ignores things like the total breakdown of the rule of law in asylum and immigration matters under the Matzka ministry a couple years ago (that would have been worth bashing - ever heard anything about that? Can you find anything about that in the media?), then I "gloss over" those phony accusations..... we have a lot of dirty laundry, the funny thing about the standard US hype against us is its cunning ability to miss the real dirt...

"Actually, it depends on the government in question. Though your right, there does seem to be little ryme nor reason to it."

Well as a lot of top people are replaced when the admin changes, and campaign contributors are appointed embassadors, there is less continuity than with the bureaucratic structures in Europe. Also even without a common EU position, simply being in the EU limits the room to manouver. With the disadvantage of being a paper tiger on many things....
US policy creates a lot of irritation by simply being erratic and incoherent. It is at least understandable that Musharraf is now the new pet dictator, but that is already creating the next problems...

"My point, which i think you understand, is the USA isn't a demon, and Europe is just as responcible for the shape of the world today, moreso even."

You would get that across better with less insults.

"It was an inside joke, using the CIA to back a postion on Europe's motives! I thought for sure you would see that."

I just considered it part of the troll...

"I think what you see as "dumb" is really a lack of refinment.
The man may come off as silly, but he's quite intelligent, and far more dangerous then you realize."

If he is intelligent he hides it very well. Btw to Ming: I thought he was in Yale ? And getting in on the spots reserved for contributors' kids ? And then went through a school that has a dropout rate of maybe 1-2 % ?
Also - my starting assumption with politicians is that they command zero integrity and zero intelligence. Until proven otherwise, and for dubya... well...

As far as dangerous... in which way ? The political elite in the US is quite dangerous, mostly for the US itself. Bush just fits in...

"It was laughable to see some Europeans "applauding" the French minister in another thread."

Well the less laughable thing is when the rhetoric from Straw and Patten goes into the same direction. I can agree with what Vedrine says, even when that agreement comes from a different motivation.