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**Lonestar** · February 12, 2002, 19:58

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
Think about it for a moment: Natives usually sided with the Brits;
they did this for a reason, right?

They usually sided with the French dude.

The English were against uncontrolled colonial expansion. The reasons may have been purely bureaucratic; but there is no doubt their policies helped the Indians.

only Indirectly. HRH George III knew that once the colonists were over the Appalaccian Mountains, his control would grow even more loose.

That the American Revolution was mostly propelled by the selfish reasons of a clique of wealthy businessmen/landowners (and not by the usual freedom-blah-blah)

You know, except for Thomas Paine, Sam Adams, Hamilton, John Adams, Ben. Franklin.

not even most US university history teachers will dispute; ask a few. And those landowners (including Washington himself) profited, some directly, some indirectly, from the theft of Indian territory. Do Americans really not know that?

You must get all kinds of American University History Teachers in Austria. What Community College are they from?

Sure, many folks profited from the revolution, but not in ways you realize. Those who profited most were the American Merchant fleet, then centered in New England which had long ago been cleared of Natives.

Of course, during this time, the Austrian Empire was busily destroying all non-German speaking villages in Central Europe, and where once there were hundreds of languages, there were few. (German, Magyar, Czech, Slovak)

So, get of your High Horse. The fact of the matter is, your knowledge of American History seems to be centered around the belief "It was all so they could kill Indians". Must be some wild cannabis parties European US History teachers throw.

**Comrade Tribune** · February 12, 2002, 20:21

Originally posted by MacTBone
You mean that Washington, as a member and ranking official of the British army, was instructed to fight Amerindians, in the French & Indian War? Yeah, of course Americans fought the Amerindians then.

No, this is not what I am talking about; Washington was involved in large scale land speculations; there were also hints of irregularities/fraud, but nothing was proven against him.

**Comrade Tribune** · February 12, 2002, 20:34

Originally posted by Lonestar
They usually sided with the French dude.

Not in the War of Independence.

You know, except for Thomas Paine, Sam Adams, Hamilton, John Adams, Ben. Franklin.

Hamilton?

That guy was a profiteer if there ever was one. The others, except for Paine, are also not above suspicion.

Of course, during this time, the Austrian Empire was busily destroying all non-German speaking villages in Central Europe, and where once there were hundreds of languages, there were few. (German, Magyar, Czech, Slovak)

Austria assimilated everybody, rather than destroying them; we were the Borg of Central Europe.

But at least we never pretended to stand for 'freedom'.

So, get of your High Horse. The fact of the matter is, your knowledge of American History seems to be centered around the belief "It was all so they could kill Indians".

American history was, and is, all about selfishness, profiteering and sheer stupidity. With a little genocide thrown in every now and then.

**Ming** · February 12, 2002, 20:39

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
American history was, and is, all about selfishness, profiteering and sheer stupidity. With a little genocide thrown in every now and then.

Talk about broad sweaping generalizations...

It's not even worth an answer... it's obvious that you can be totally ignorant when you want to...

**SnowFire** · February 12, 2002, 21:16

andyman & Comrade Tribune: HAHAHAHAHAHA oh wait a second, not meant as satire.

But at least we never pretended to stand for 'freedom'.

Got that right. Yup, the good old benevolent Austrians who crushed all attempts at overthrowing their royal family which was clearly so much more enlightened than the sham democracy in America, along with all the sham freedoms. With an amazingly good act by some paid off dissenters to run around pretending they had freedoms. Yup, it was all illusory, America has just pretended to have freedoms its entire history.

I still think that the comment about the War for American Independence being fought as an excuse to kill American Indians takes the cake.

**Comrade Tribune** · February 12, 2002, 21:28

Originally posted by Ming
Talk about broad sweaping generalizations...

OK, you have a point here.

The last sentence of my post should be taken with a grain of salt.

However, note that I was answering the sentence: '...your knowledge of American History seems to be centered around the belief "It was all so they could kill Indians".'

It was pretty obvious that the guy wanted to misunderstand me; therefore my slightly short-tempered reaction.

After recently being held responsible for Hitler, Haider and being called an anti-semite for no reason at all, my temper was wearing a bit thin. But a reasonable argument will always get a reasonable answer from me.

**Lars-E** · February 12, 2002, 21:37

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
OK, you have a point here.

The last sentence of my post should be taken with a grain of salt.

Hehe.. Your salty remark is now in my sig forever for everybody's viewing pleasure!!

**Comrade Tribune** · February 12, 2002, 21:45

Originally posted by SnowFire
... the good old benevolent Austrians who crushed all attempts at overthrowing their royal family

Some of our policies were benevolent. Our most controversial policy was crushing all nationalisms equally; this was why Hitler hated Austria. Had he liked it here, he wouldn´t have emigrated. The Austrian melting pot approach to nationalism was politically incorrect, then politically correct, then politically incorrect again; it is ultimately difficult to decide.

which was clearly so much more enlightened ...

No. My whole point is that we are not running around so much teaching everybody lessons how they should govern themselves, lessons we then conveniently ignore if applied to us. If you stop preaching, you will be judged less harshly.

than the sham democracy in America, ...

As to American democracy, there is a lot of reasonable doubt. Must I remind you how Bush was 'elected'? There are developing countries that have less suspicious procedures.

**Comrade Tribune** · February 12, 2002, 21:55

Originally posted by Lars-E
Your salty remark is now in my sig forever for everybody's viewing pleasure!!

Heh; who am I to censor your signature?

**Lars-E** · February 12, 2002, 21:59

I c. You want to use my posts/sig to spam your views on the users. Clever.

**Jogilius** · February 12, 2002, 22:00

Originally posted by lightblue
True. I don't think you'll find any Euros here who will defend what happened during the colonial times.

By gones.

Well not really by gones, but did you know what the mayans or other american "indians" used to do to each other before Europians brought their ever-so-excellent civilization to America. They were savage and violent people. Terrrrrible.

The point: this is the present, and that's the most essential point in time that people should comment on. What has already happened, has happened. Life is a *****, and so on... we can try not to do bad things again, so now we concentrate on the things that are going on right now.

**Lonestar** · February 12, 2002, 22:12

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune

Not in the War of Independence.

I think you are thinking fo the War of 1812.

Hamilton?

That guy was a profiteer if there ever was one. The others, except for Paine, are also not above suspicion.

Be nice. The guy was the Bastard son of a Barbados whore.

Austria assimilated everybody, rather than destroying them; we were the Borg of Central Europe.

But at least we never pretended to stand for 'freedom'.

Well, I guess that's true. But the point of the matter is, the Proto-United States were the most free government in existance at the time. Again, mostly because of British influence :: tips hat at British posters ::

American history was, and is, all about selfishness, profiteering and sheer stupidity. With a little genocide thrown in every now and then.

...said the Kettle to the...wait, damn. Already said that in this thread.

**Lars-E** · February 12, 2002, 22:24

The Turkish invasion was stopped at Austria, not?

**Seneca** · February 12, 2002, 22:29

[SIZE=1]

Well, I guess that's true. But the point of the matter is, the Proto-United States were the most free government in existance at the time. Again, mostly because of British influence :: tips hat at British posters ::

Thank you. It's about time my personal contribution to the birth of democracy was acknowledged.

**Lonestar** · February 12, 2002, 22:33

Originally posted by Seneca

Thank you. It's about time my personal contribution to the birth of democracy was acknowledged.

A chicken contributed to dempocracy?

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