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  • #91
    Originally posted by Ted Striker
    That isn't the point.
    It is exactly the point. The child lacks the ability to give informed consent for submitting him/herself to an invasive surgery and the parents have decided not to allow the opperation as is thier right.

    Nice play on words there
    Nice dodge.

    the kid wants to hear, the parents are not letting her hear.
    So if the child's parents deny the child a bike are they taking that away from him/her as well?

    If they said the risk was too great, fine, I'd be happy with that.
    Why is that? It is the same exact decision.

    you cant listen to music and compose can you?
    Why don't we ask Beethoven (sp)?
    Last edited by DinoDoc; January 10, 2002, 12:10.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • #92
      Originally posted by DinoDoc


      So if the child's parents deny the child a bike are they taking that away from him/her as well?
      I cant believe you are comparing the ability to hear with a bike.


      Originally posted by DinoDoc

      Why don't we ask Motzart (sp)?
      He was not born deaf and neither was Beethoven who I think you are referring to so your comment is irrelevant.
      ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
      ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Caligastia
        I cant believe you are comparing the ability to hear with a bike.
        Perhaps you could explain to me how someone could take something from you that you never had to begin with then?

        He was not born deaf so your comment is irrelevant.
        You said that a deaf person could not compose music. Stop backpedaling, Cali.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Tingkai


          People who are born without an arm or a leg (such as the thalidimide kids) generally say that it doesn't bother them, or words to that effect IIRC. The logic is that they have never experienced having two arms or two legs so they don't know what they are missing. They would say that they don't need two arms. One will do quite fine, thank you.

          I know it sounds weird, but that's what they say. Who am I to tell them they are wrong.

          Besides, think of it this way. Do you regret the fact that you don't have a third set of arms? Of course not.
          You cant compare having a third set of arms because nobody has this anyway - its not normal. The fact is that being deaf is a DISABILITY. This is a fact that deaf people need to accept instead of living in a fantasy. Even the child could see the advantages of being able to hear even though she had never experienced it. Just like someone with no arms would see the advantages of having arms.
          ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
          ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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          • #95
            Originally posted by DinoDoc


            Perhaps you could explain to me how someone could take something from you that you never had to begin with then?
            It is opportunity that is being taken from this child.


            Originally posted by DinoDoc
            You said that a deaf person could not compose music. Stop backpedaling, Cali.
            Backpedaling? The whole thread has been about people who have never been able to hear and now you are talking about people who lost their hearing as adults. Two very different things.
            ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
            ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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            • #96
              Curious.. does everyone agree that if the parents had said that the reason they didn't want their child getting this implant is due to the risks involved, there would be no problem?

              So does this all come down to their reason for doing this?

              Regarding the state having a say in this I am concerned as they would be the ones deciding what is normal, and what is not. This concerns me as it would be in affect a mob rule, would it not.
              What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"

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              • #97
                Originally posted by November Adam
                Curious.. does everyone agree that if the parents had said that the reason they didn't want their child getting this implant is due to the risks involved, there would be no problem?
                This type of surgery used to be risky, but nowadays the risk is very very small so I would still have a problem with the parents decision.
                Originally posted by November Adam
                Regarding the state having a say in this I am concerned as they would be the ones deciding what is normal, and what is not. This concerns me as it would be in affect a mob rule, would it not.
                It doesnt take the government to decide that having the ability to hear is normal does it? I think we can all agree on that.
                ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

                Comment

                • #98
                  Originally posted by Caligastia


                  This type of surgery used to be risky, but nowadays the risk is very very small so I would still have a problem with the parents decision.
                  Caligastia, I often have problems with other peoples decisions, but that doesn't mean I can tell them what to do, even if I try.

                  It doesnt take the government to decide that having the ability to hear is normal does it? I think we can all agree on that.
                  Nope, but who would enforce it? As well the government tends to decide they have to keep busy so they keep doing more and more, and make a mess out of everything.

                  I am just as distressed as you are by their reasoning, and I don't understand it, but it isn't criminal as they aren't causing harm to the child. He/she (is this a boy or girl?), didn't have hearing to begin with, so it is not like they are puncturing the kids ear drums. And being deaf is not life threatening, if it were then these two parents wouldn't even be around.
                  What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by November Adam


                    Caligastia, I often have problems with other peoples decisions, but that doesn't mean I can tell them what to do, even if I try.
                    So nobody should tell anybody what to do...?

                    Originally posted by November Adam
                    Nope, but who would enforce it? As well the government tends to decide they have to keep busy so they keep doing more and more, and make a mess out of everything.

                    I am just as distressed as you are by their reasoning, and I don't understand it, but it isn't criminal as they aren't causing harm to the child. He/she (is this a boy or girl?), didn't have hearing to begin with, so it is not like they are puncturing the kids ear drums. And being deaf is not life threatening, if it were then these two parents wouldn't even be around.
                    The parents are still forcing a disability on this child. To me this is harmful. Its harmful to the childs growth and development.

                    The government doesnt mess up everything it touches you know...
                    ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                    ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

                    Comment

                    • #100
                      Originally posted by Caligastia
                      The parents are still forcing a disability on this child. To me this is harmful. Its harmful to the childs growth and development.
                      How is it harmful to the childs growth and development?

                      The child can still think, eat, sleep, read, write, work, play, create, etc, etc, etc.
                      What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"

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                      • #101
                        Originally posted by Caligastia
                        The government doesnt mess up everything it touches you know...
                        deep breath
                        What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"

                        Comment

                        • #102
                          Originally posted by November Adam


                          How is it harmful to the childs growth and development?
                          Do I really have to spell it out for you?
                          ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                          ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

                          Comment

                          • #103
                            Originally posted by Caligastia


                            Do I really have to spell it out for you?
                            Please do. The deaf community has done their best to ensure that their growth and development isn't harmed. Deaf people aren't different, they may have some disadvantadges, but those are overcome.
                            What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"

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                            • #104
                              I think that is wrong for the parents to have done this.

                              But not illegal.

                              There is an important difference there. They were being bad parents but it was not such that the state should step in. The state should only step in when a law is being broken (abuse or the like) or the parents are being such bad parents that the lifef of the child is in danger which it is not in the case.

                              Hopefully the parents will see reason before much more time goes by. Oh, and those who maintain the deafness is not a disability are being obtuse.

                              Jon Miller
                              Jon Miller-
                              I AM.CANADIAN
                              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                              • #105
                                Originally posted by November Adam


                                Please do. The deaf community has done their best to ensure that their growth and development isn't harmed. Deaf people aren't different, they may have some disadvantadges, but those are overcome.
                                They cant overcome the fact that they cant hear.
                                ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                                ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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