60 minutes goes McCarthyist

[Imran Siddiqui]

What point?

Damn defensive Greeks!

[Bereta_Eder]

I am a romantic I can't help it! I like writing love poetry, gazing at sirine sunsets and the calm see, smelling roses and supporting terrorist organizations

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW, still no facts about any of the slander except that 17N has not been caught...

and inflating that subject into a Wall Street dot-com bubble and linking it to the Olympic games in Athens in 2004 is absurd. Greece has organized dozens of international championships for decades now without the slightest incident.
You can't say that about many other countries. (Atlanta Olympics bombing is the most recent example).

But linking those two unlinkable things together has its goals too.
Go look which is the american private security company that the US government - corporate lackeys are trying to force down our throats for the 2004... Non Merci.
Greece is far safer than the US in holding ANY sports events as well as anything else! PROVEN!!! And safer than most other countries too. (BTW we are not investing 600 millions of dollars in security of the upcoming Olympics for nothing). Guess you missed that one too. But your private security companies ain't touching that money no matter how much slander you throw on us. (and yet another funny sidenote: US asked Greece to hold the recent greco-roman world championships in Greece isntead of America because of security concerns and now they are talking about Olympics security? Pleeeease )

El freako: there are matters of high sensitivity. This is one of them. If you can be arsed to know why, just make an effort and read the thread. Generalizations like the ones you made, no matter how cute they are, they just are "accommodating" for you.

Imran,
nationalist?
Passionate, maybe. Proud maybe. Not taking any crap maybe. nationalist no...!

I am ready to accept any shortcomings for Greece as long as you can prove them to me. Actually I'll be the FIRST to point them out and if I can't, I'll welcome your constructive critisism.
If it's propaganda, slander or wild speculations which serve other aims and purposes you better forget about it and go bowling

In the mean time why don't you nominate CBS reporters for the pulitzer price while you're at it?

I mean asking a head of parliement of an allied country if he agrees with the actions of terrorists and when he replies that this is absurd labeling him as a "Greek Nationalist" deserves some kind of prize...

Jesus

[MichaeltheGreat]

Re: 60 minutes goes McCarthyist

Originally posted by MarkG
perhaps the most important part was when the CBS reporter directly asked the President of the Greek Parliament if he agrees with the actions of terrorists....


and a little bit of truth: there HAVE been arrests and trials for terrorism, just not for 17N. and yes, 17N has killed 22 people in the last 26 years. meanwhile ETA has killed over 800 in the last 30 years and OBL killed 4000 in a day...

Back in the 70's and 80's, Athens and Athens airport were the major conduit for movement of terrorists including Abu Abbas, Abu Nidal and many others - even to the point of moving from one middle eastern destination to another, or from the ME to Africa, Asia or Europe.

For a major portion of the 80's, Athens airport was so notorious for it's lax security that the only major commercial airport in the world rated worse was Lagos, Nigeria. Nothing indicates that was due to incompetence or an inability to meet normal security standards - it was all apparently due to a habit of looking the other way while weapons, explosives, money and personnel out the wazoo went in and out of major ME terrorism hotspots, incuding Beirut, Damascus, and Tripoli.

Whatever the merits of the current flap, the Greeks do have a recent history of national/governmental tolerance and passive accomodation of internationally notorious terrorist groups, so long as they didn't base operations from Greek soil.

[Roland]

"Whatever the merits of the current flap, the Greeks do have a recent history of national/governmental tolerance and passive accomodation of internationally notorious terrorist groups"

Mostly palestinian groups in the 70s and 80s. But those are freedom fighters, are they not ?

[Bereta_Eder]

If the US government has something to say to Greece they should say it up and front and with proof.

Hiding behind media slander while saying that all is well in our relations is hypocricy. It is counter - productive too.


Out in the open and with proof.

[Bereta_Eder]

and this sort of manipualtion is VERY old school too. So old it reminds of.. colder days when our interests were opposite. They still are in many ways of course.

Roland: Palestinian freedom fighter? Sure. As the US has the right to define who is a freedom fighter and who is a terrorist so do we. Especially when their policies are threatening.

But it is really old school.

_Junta had just collapsed and Greece was furious at the US
_N. Cyprus was captured and no help from anybody, in fact help was given to the other side

Why help anyone who was hostile to us?



It's called building up leverage. Greece was all alone with the US bending over to satisfy Turkey. Our very existance was at stake.
You get what you give.

In 1986 when Turkey, with US consent violated sea territorial waters and was ready to start building up forces to capture half of the Aegean, it was the USSR who bailed us out.

Freedom fighters and terrorists change according to a country's interests as first the US demonstrated.


But as I said, no proof so it means absolutely nothing.

[MarkG]

michael, what does the 70's and 80's and non-greek terrorist groups have to do with 2002 and greek terrorist groups?

you are talking about stuff that old that
a) the prime ministers of that period are now in heaven(or something like that)
b) athens has a new airport
c) the country even has a different currency!!!

[Bereta_Eder]

Besides the airport (the new one!) is no longer on that list.

In the '70s and '80s Greece was a crossroad for both CIA and KGB agents fighting in foreign soils...

and I'd hardly call anything from american media a flap to anybody. But it does build up resentment of domestic public opinion against a country which facilitates your goals that's true.

But today, it's either bomb us or don't pester us. Since the first is impossible, these old school slanders do not mean much. And were in fact produced by old school guys. Things have changed. We are not in the '60s or '70's anymore and Greece's political integrity is solid and guarded...

[axi]

Terrorism is premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience. So, by what logical leap do we get to not call a spade a spade?

You can take this definition and shove it back up where you found it.

Terrorism is supposed to terrorise; as long as it does not terrorise anybody, then it's not terrorism.

[Roland]

Originally posted by axi


You can take this definition and shove it back up where you found it.

Please, can we stay polite and not lower ourselves to the level of CBS "news" ?

[Bereta_Eder]

He didn't indicate a specific body part. His phrase is open to interpretation.

[Bereta_Eder]

I wonder sometimes if we are ever going to be left alone to live in peace. We have Turkey and the US against us and there is no USSR to counter balance them

Still it remains a fight of diplomacy untill of course a fine day the US decides that holding back Turkey from attacking no longer serves her interests...

With friends like these...


In the near future (it has already started) Greece will be used by the US (through Turkey) as a way to hold the EU by the balls and to dictate its own policies to the EU, lest it destablilizes the SE Europe.

France and Germany have clearly shown that this will not be tolerated but without either an EU army or a US stopping being dictatorial in its demands it doesn't mean much.

One way to erase this is to reach a solid Greek - Turkish relationship of friendly neighbooring. But that's impossible for the time being because we can't negotiate with, or approach a military regime which has US backing in its grandiose ideas of expansion of its influence.

Still INMHO Greece is way more secure than it ever was before both from US attempts to destabilize it (that's impossible anymore) as well as Turkey's aspirations in the Aegean.

Phew, Geopolitics is a ***** especially when you are in the crossroads of 3 continents. We seem to have done ok this far though. And it wasn't easy! Still open accounts remain.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I wonder if a government can sue for slander? I think they should.

You are the last person who should be hoping that this is possible.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by paiktis22
I wonder sometimes if we are ever going to be left alone to live in peace. We have Turkey and the US against us and there is no USSR to counter balance them

Still it remains a fight of diplomacy untill of course a fine day the US decides that holding back Turkey from attacking no longer serves her interests...

With friends like these...

Do you ever wonder why Greece doesn't have any friends? Well, I guess you are friends with the Serbs for what that is worth.