Announcement

**MarkG** · January 10, 2002, 08:55

Originally posted by Sikander
Do you ever wonder why Greece doesn't have any friends?

so there is room for friendships in geopolitical strategies? wow....

**Sikander** · January 10, 2002, 09:42

Originally posted by MarkG
so there is room for friendships in geopolitical strategies? wow....

You are probably right, there are only customers and competitors.

**MichaeltheGreat** · January 10, 2002, 11:53

Originally posted by Roland
"Whatever the merits of the current flap, the Greeks do have a recent history of national/governmental tolerance and passive accomodation of internationally notorious terrorist groups"

Mostly palestinian groups in the 70s and 80s. But those are freedom fighters, are they not ?

Hizbollah, among others, aren't Palestinian.

Nor were the guys involved in the 747 bombing Lockerbie (same operatives had previously moved through Athens related to other ops and planning), the Berlin disco bombing, nor the PIRA operatives training in Libyan and Sudanese camps, etc.

If the Palestinian groups want to take on the Israeli Defense Forces, sure they're freedom fighters. A refrigerator full of TNT and nails on a truck parked in a marketplace doesn't quite cut it, though.

**DinoDoc** · January 10, 2002, 11:55

This is fun.

Originally posted by axi
You can take this definition and shove it back up where you found it.

As I said earlier, the definition of the term has been bastardized by politically motivated and ignorant efforts not to apply it to groups where it would be either emberrassing or inconvenient to apply it. If that offends you, so be it.

Originally posted by paiktis22
I am a romantic I can't help it! I like writing love poetry, gazing at sirine sunsets and the calm see, smelling roses and supporting terrorist organizations

Minimizing acts of purposeful murder, check.
Refering to a terrorist group as merely a group of "freedom fighters" who have lost thier way, check.

Why yes I do believe that you have been romanticizing the group in this thread. Now shove off if you have nothing more of value to say.

Originally posted by MarkG
you are talking about stuff that old that
a) the prime ministers of that period are now in heaven(or something like that)
b) athens has a new airport

Both of which are irrelevent unless these new PMs have actually made a signifigant effort to actually improve security which based on this thread it seems that they have not.

**MarkG** · January 10, 2002, 12:08

Re: This is fun.

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Refering to a terrorist group as merely a group of "freedom fighters" who have lost thier way, check.

paiktis about 17N? please supply us with the quote....

Both of which are irrelevent unless these new PMs have actually made a signifigant effort to actually improve security which based on this thread it seems that they have not.

what evidence have been presented towards that again?

**Roland** · January 10, 2002, 12:24

"Hizbollah, among others, aren't Palestinian."

Part-part. Oh, Greece may well have been tolerating certain PKK activities, too. Yet this tells little about the november group. Or does the support of all kinds of terrorist groups in latin america or maybe even europe through the US government or wild agents thereof mean that the US government is really allied with al Qaeda ?

**Bereta_Eder** · January 10, 2002, 12:33

Re: This is fun.

Originally posted by DinoDoc

As I said earlier, the definition of the term has been bastardized by politically motivated and ignorant efforts not to apply it to groups where it would be either emberrassing or inconvenient to apply it. If that offends you, so be it.

You have been labeling terrorists as freedom fighters for decades.

UCK, KLA, Mujahedin, Bin Laden to name a few.

Minimizing acts of purposeful murder, check.

Puting them in their correct perspective and notoverblowing them like you tend to do.

Refering to a terrorist group as merely a group of "freedom fighters" who have lost thier way, check.

Anyone with a Che Geuvera pic as his logo gets my sympathies

Seriously, I have never done what you are saying.

I do believe that you have been romanticizing the group in this thread. Now shove off if you have nothing more of value to say.

You are free to do so.

Both of which are irrelevent unless these new PMs have actually made a signifigant effort to actually improve security which based on this thread it seems that they have not.

Our interests take precedence over your interests. If it is in our interest to tighten security we will do so. You have to give us a reason to do it. Bombing isn't included

Still you seem to jump to conclusions base on the impressions you get here. Not so prudent. Security has been beefed up since the cold war is over and your threats have been reduced so I guess there is no need for leverage of that sort any more. (if there EVER was).

Sikander,

Friends are made if friendly moves are made. Greece has been used as a pawn and as second class citizen by the US for decades now.

So what you're basically are saying is: comform and we wil be friendly. (not anyone believes it since other dangerous to us allies are more important to you) I guess what we are saying is: play nice and we will comform. A catch-22?

and lest it be forgotten all these accusations remain unfounded. Not a single shred of evidence.

I'll just go aheead and consider them all slander serving other purposes except if a proof is being forwarded. It hasn't been provided for 20 years, if it does now it will be a surprise.

**MichaeltheGreat** · January 10, 2002, 12:50

Originally posted by Roland
"Hizbollah, among others, aren't Palestinian."

Part-part. Oh, Greece may well have been tolerating certain PKK activities, too. Yet this tells little about the november group. Or does the support of all kinds of terrorist groups in latin america or maybe even europe through the US government or wild agents thereof mean that the US government is really allied with al Qaeda ?

Supporting a nation's domestic right-wing thugs in power, or a nation's domestic right-wing thugs formerly in power but now a counterrevolutionary insurgency doesn't equate with terrorism. Converse with the flip side - the USSR's supporting of domestic leftist thugs who want to be in power. Particularly in the Latinamerican context, where until recently the vast majority of changes of government have been by coup or revolution, and those domestic revolutionary and counterrevolutionary groups spontaneously arose on a regular basis - the whole US / USSR + Cuba thing has been to support existing domestic groups which were ideologically friendly and potentially useful to one side's agenda or another.

My point is that whether the allegations about the current government are fair or not, until quite recently, the Greek government had a well-known reputation for letting Greece be a safe haven and travel hub. They didn't go quite as far as having a "Terrorist's club" in the airport with free drinks, Semtex, Kalashnikov's and a place to check your email while waiting for your flight, but it was pretty damn close.

So if the Greeks are being good boys now, they still have a bit of a reputation to overcome.

**MichaeltheGreat** · January 10, 2002, 12:55

Re: Re: This is fun.

Originally posted by paiktis22

You have been labeling terrorists as freedom fighters for decades.

UCK, KLA, Mujahedin, Bin Laden to name a few.

Dino - maybe a good working definition is:

Freedom fighters: Any group, but especially any leftist group, fighting against any Israeli or non-leftist government.

Terrorists: Any group, but especially any non-leftist group, fighting against any leftist government.

Half the impediment to communication is not being able to define terminology in a consistent way.

**Roland** · January 10, 2002, 12:56

"My point is that whether the allegations about the current government are fair or not, until quite recently, the Greek government had a well-known reputation for letting Greece be a safe haven and travel hub."

And my point is that you have to differentiate between politically friendly and unfriendly groups. Eg the DDR was hardly a paradise for terrorists as such, only for the RAF members from the west.

**Bereta_Eder** · January 10, 2002, 12:57

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
. They didn't go quite as far as having a "Terrorist's club" in the airport with free drinks, Semtex, Kalashnikov's and a place to check your email while waiting for your flight, but it was pretty damn close.

Service with a smile

Proof?

**Bereta_Eder** · January 10, 2002, 13:00

Re: Re: Re: This is fun.

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Freedom fighters: Any group, but especially any leftist group, fighting against any Israeli or non-leftist government.

Terrorists: Any group, but especially any non-leftist group, fighting against any leftist government.

Switch it around and you have the american definition

**Imran Siddiqui** · January 10, 2002, 13:07

Pattycakes... very nationalist leanings I see. You can deny it, but it is still there.

Greece is far safer than the US in holding ANY sports events as well as anything else! PROVEN!!!

I don't remember anything happening during the '94 World Cup, do you?

And where is your proof (since you seem so keen on asking it... even of MtG!!)?

**Bereta_Eder** · January 10, 2002, 13:08

From all the things I'm hearing (although it is not the first time) I have to say, I am very proud of Greece. It seems we did have our role in the bigger scheem of things

**Bereta_Eder** · January 10, 2002, 13:11

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Pattycakes... very nationalist leanings I see. You can deny it, but it is still there.

I am fully aware that I come out as a nationalist. This isn't the UN convention on security thought. It's not a popularity contest.

Announcement

60 minutes goes McCarthyist

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment