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**Bereta_Eder** · January 9, 2002, 16:50

BTW how many were the dead in the Atlanta Olympic Games shooting again?

CbS should do a "reportage" on this too

**MarkG** · January 9, 2002, 16:51

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Is the BBC biased?

just because it's the one of the largest and best news srouce in the world doesnt mean that every single report of it is unbiased

yes, unfortunately Mrs Saunders is still waiting for justice, and I'm very sorry for what happened to her family in my country. Families in Cyprus who have missing persons since 1974 and dont even know if they are dead or alive are waiting for justice too. If you think my comment is unfair, so it the ending in the "unbiased" bbc report...

**axi** · January 9, 2002, 16:51

Wow! The 17N thread which I failed to notice earlier...

MarkG, paiktis22, I think that what you're doing is bad PR. Giving more publicity to a libel only makes more people believe that libel. And I guess that after 11-9 most Americans tend to believe such anti-terrorist crap over the truth. However, since many more people are watching CBS than viewing this thread, there is no harm done.

Now let me see, since some people in the forums have already accused me of being a terrorist myself, it seems that I have nothing to lose, so I will make some comments...

1. Greek police IS rather incompetent when facing REAL detective work and REALLY dangerous people; greek policemen are in general neither clever nor brave people. See the Kostas Passaris case, f.e.

2. As far as the greek people are concerned, 17N is not a terrorist organisation, in the sense that it brings them no terror. They are just another criminal organisation, which specialises in political crime. in fact they are even more harmless than a regular criminal gang, since they're not after you and me. It is a 100% guaranteed that the public would rejoice much more if the police apprehends 10 cat-burglars (not to mention murder-rapists or drug dealers) than if it catches the whole organisation.

3. 17N's main concern each time they hit is getting publicity, being in fashion and seeking targets which the public dislikes. Also their manifestoes are rather apologetic. They hold the record of being the organisation with the biggest efforts to be popular and yet the smallest support base (themselves).

4. Their hits are strangely in sync with US pressure on the Greek govt, on various issues and with possible US govt and CIA-specific interests, concerning the targets. The last terract in Greece is characteristic: a couple of days before the 17 of November anniversary, a high-tech remote controlled bomb exploded outside a mall, barely missing to injure several people: a blind strike, aimed to terrorize the public. The vast majority of greeks are sure that this was a rather clumsy CIA provocation.

5. Nobody except some conservative Americans believes that the 17N members are communist idealists, like the RAF and other groups. Like nobody believes that PASOK is a socialist party.

6. Terrorism is a word which has not the same definition around the world. Don't be so self-righteous as to believe that your own definition is correct. In my book, what the United States called their foreign policy these last 50 years, is terrorism too.

**DinoDoc** · January 9, 2002, 18:55

Originally posted by axi
2. As far as the greek people are concerned, 17N is not a terrorist organisation... They are just another criminal organisation, which specialises in political crime.

Terrorism is premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience. So, by what logical leap do we get to not call a spade a spade?

It is a 100% guaranteed that the public would rejoice much more if the police apprehends 10 cat-burglars (not to mention murder-rapists or drug dealers) than if it catches the whole organisation.

This is the tacit support I mentioned earlier in this thread.

5. Nobody except some conservative Americans believes that the 17N members are communist idealists,

I don't know about that. They seem to be following perfectly in line with the path laid down by both Lenin & Trotsky with thier use of terroristic meathods to accomplish political goals.

6. Terrorism is a word which has not the same definition around the world.

Yes, I realize that the definition has been bastardized by efforts in which not to apply it in areas where it would be uncomfortable to apply it. Which actually seems to be the case in your post.

**MarkG** · January 9, 2002, 19:00

Originally posted by DinoDoc
This is the tacit support I mentioned earlier in this thread.

if you're not with us you're against us right?

so dino, when was the last time you gave any kind of information to the goverment aiding it in the country's war against terrorism?

**DinoDoc** · January 9, 2002, 19:03

Originally posted by MarkG
if you're not with us you're against us right?

If you can tell me that paiktis22's romanticizing of the group isn't that common in Greece I will happily concede that point and apoligize for any offense it may have caused.

**Imran Siddiqui** · January 9, 2002, 19:17

This is sort of amusing. It seems the Greeks are are nationalistic as some Americans. Any attempt to critique the nation are met with severe reprisals and calling news reports lies and slander. This nationalistic fervor is surprising. *Shrug* At least I know there are other nations that have jingoism as bad as some right-wing Americans.

**el freako** · January 9, 2002, 19:48

Hey cut them some slack Imran,

They only threw off their Turkish opressors 170 years ago - fifty years after the Americans, and have lived next to their powerfull former overlords ever since.

We wouldn't want them to be as jingoistic as other countries in simmilar positions would we (like Ireland, Finland and Poland, say).

**Imran Siddiqui** · January 9, 2002, 19:52

Hey cut them some slack Chegitz,

**el freako** · January 9, 2002, 20:48

Oops!

Sorry about the ballsup there Imran,

I usually Cut and Paste names, but I seem to have just pasted then.

Above post edited.

**Imran Siddiqui** · January 9, 2002, 20:55

That's ok.. it was a funny post

**MarkG** · January 9, 2002, 21:01

Originally posted by DinoDoc
paiktis22's romanticizing of the group

eeer where did you see that?

**MarkG** · January 9, 2002, 21:05

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Any attempt to critique the nation are met with severe reprisals and calling news reports lies and slander.

it seems that you are used to see news showing only one side of a story....
try not to watch too much cbs

**Imran Siddiqui** · January 9, 2002, 22:13

My point has been proven.

**MarkG** · January 9, 2002, 22:13

mine too

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