The Best And The Worst Of Your Countries History.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Transcend
For the US:

Best moment:
- Victory in WW2, dropping of the Atomic Bombs

What a degrading attitude. But I'm not surprised by you anymore. You're an inhumane being.

[Dr. Nick]

For a historian, Chris, I find some of your statements incredibly biased and ignorant and based purely on national jingoism.

[Dr. Nick]

And just to nit pick I believe that the first heart transplant was performed in South Africa (or was it the first ever transplant, I can't remember) and Penicillin was developed in Britain pre WWII.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by El Awrence
And just to nit pick I believe that the first heart transplant was performed in South Africa (or was it the first ever transplant, I can't remember) and Penicillin was developed in Britain pre WWII.

both are true

Chris... confess!

[Drago Sinio]

I agree with Chris's list, but would differ on Harry Truman. For one thing, blaming Truman for the Soviet's taking eastern Europe, while not giving him credit for the Truman Doctrine or the Marshall plan is unfair to old Harry. He could easily have called it the Truman plan, but gave the credit to Marshall. By the time Truman came to power things in Europe were fairly well settled anyway, The Soviets were more or less already there, with troops and tanks. If you want to blame someone - Look to FDR for that.

And lets not forget Trumans early recognition of Israel, over the objections of the State Dept. . They were afraid of losing access to Arab oil because of it, but Harry did it anyway.

Furthermore President Trumans decision to use the A-bombs brought the war to an end , perhaps as much as a year earlier, saving untold hundreds of thousands of lives. Both Japanese and American.

Good job, Harry! And thank you.

[ranskaldan]

Mmmm.... I've lived in three countries, so I'll do all three.

China

BEST
- The Tang Dynasty, when China was really immensely powerful from all aspects, comparable to the United States today.

WORST
- Mao's insanity, 1957-1976. About 50,000,000 people died as a result of his mad, bizarre, and puzzlingly incoherent actions.
Interestingly, Mao's regime led to an increase of population. Mao declared that China needed more people ( ) and started a fertility campaign. China's population tripled and since then it has such an immense problem today with feeding everyone. (thus the One-Child Policy.)

Singapore

BEST
- Its amazing development in the seventies, eighties, and nineties.

WORST
- The Japanese Occupation, 42-45.

Canada

BEST
- Passchendaele etc.

WORST
- totally no idea. I've only been in Canada for 4 months... so see the many, many Canadians before me who've responded to this.

[Ramo]

I'll only do the Best 'cuz I'm sure y'all are sick to death of hearing the bad...

things from me.

Americans show their best when tossing off the yoke of tyranny.

The quintessential example is the strike. America's long history of labor militancy makes the strike exemplary of American ideals.

As to specific events: The Bill of Rights, the Whiskey Rebellion, Nat Turner's Rebellion, the Anti-Renter movement, Dorr's Rebellion, the Underground Railroad, the 13th-15th Amendments, the Farmer's Alliance, the Anti-Imperialist League, the Worker's Councils during the Depression, the American people volunteering to fight fascism, the American people who fought the various drafts, the Civil Rights revolt of the 60's and the subsequent legislation, and the anti-war protests against Viet Nam.

["I especially like your description of the Marshall Plan as "selfless".]"


It's also true.

To quote the ambassador to Russia in 1944, Harriman, "Economic assistance is one of the most effective weapons at our disposal to influence European political events in the direction we desire..."

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Ecthelion


What a degrading attitude. But I'm not surprised by you anymore. You're an inhumane being.

That's right. Firebombing Dresden should be another proud moment of our history.

[Stefu]

the other two with Clinton.

Didn't Ruby Ridge happen under Bush admin?

What a degrading attitude. But I'm not surprised by you anymore. You're an inhumane being.

While I wouldn't call use of atomic weapon a great moment in any history, it probably was still more humane than full-scale invasion with plenty of Japanese and Americans dying.

[Immortal Wombat]

Re: And the best...

Originally posted by Chris 62
Young nation throws off yoke of the old world, defeats Britain, and adopts US Constituition, a document still revered to this day.

And oh so forward looking

USA puts first man on the moon, greatest scientific acchivement in world history

Good as the moon landing was, it was 70% political, and 25% huge ****-off rockets, as scientific acheivements go, it was nowhere near the greatest.

[Xeones]

USA

best - the start of the revolution. more the start than the end. it looked like pretty bad odds when it began, yet americans perservered.

worst - genocide of american indians ("manifest destiny"). followed closely by the entire history of slavery. something in me is more offended by what americans did to the natives, though.

[KrazyHorse]

Best: Canada's Hundred Days in WWI, institution of nationalised health care, stoning of the governor's carriage in Montreal in 1836 (the idea of the Crown granting responsible government to colonies is first planted here), labour movement of the 30's, a slightly enlightened attitude to Natives starting in the 19th century (sure we did a whole ****load of bad stuff, but we tended to be better than other Europeans on the continent had been), invention of insulin, the telephone etc., 1954 Suez Crisis, War of 1812

Worst: English subjugation of the French minority in Canada followed by French subjugation of the English minority in Quebec, the ignoring of civil rights during the October crisis, smallpox infected blankets for the Inuit (and the like), fascist sympathies in Quebec and suppression of anything even vaguely leftist (Padlock Law and Duplessis' entire reign), worse handling of the Depression than the US saw.

[Imran Siddiqui]

New England tries to get the USA to invade Canada as a responce to England's "Orders in council", starting war of 1812

Say what? New England tries to get the US to invade Canada? You flunk American history? The reason Canada was invaded in Michigan (by Harrison) was because New England REFUSED to participate in the war. The easy way to do it would have been through New England, but those states refused to call up their militias, and even talked about succession at the Hartford Convention because they were so against the war with England (being almost fully Federalist).

New England trying to invade Canada is one of the funniest things I've seen on this board, Chris .

Wilson allows Lyodd George and Clemenceau to push unfair treaty on Germany, which lead directly to Hitler and the second world war, US congress reacts by refusing to join league of nations, dooming it to faliure.

Allows? What do you think he should have done, threatened to invade? Britain and France could have done what they want, especially since the US wasn't technically an Allied Power (Wilson signed on as an Auxilliary Power, because he didn't want to be seen as taking sides for the spoils of war... Hell, he didn't even want the war in the first place).

Realizing that he couldn't get the treaty he wanted, he pushed all out for the League of Nations, which could have worked if he wasn't so unyielding at home.

Truman allows Stalin to take all of Eastern Europe, begining cold war, which will not end till 1989 (1945)

Once again, allows? Were we to invade? And as stated, if anyone should be blamed, it is FDR, who already divided up Europe with Churchill and Stalin.

US fails to properly assist Chinese nationalists, Communists take China 1947-48

It would have been Vietnam times 10. Propping up an unpopular, brutal warlord in the face of a popular (even if Communist) movement. Disaster in the making.

[Natan]

I'll start with the bad, then work up:

Worst (in descending order of shamefulness):
Extermination of the Indians
Slavery
Jim Crow
Persecution of Asian Americans, both in the 19th century and WWII
Occasional political repression (of tories, socialists, etc.) (not as widespread as chegitz thinks, )
Supporting bad people abroad (but not as much as Ramo thinks, )
Persecution of various immigrant groups (Irish, Italians, Jews)

Best moments(chronological order):
Declaration of Independence
Signing of Constitution
Emancipation Proclamation (the whole civil war, really)
World War II, especially the liberation of the concentration camps.
Civil Rights Movement
Containment and defeat of the USSR

and generally, allowing in so many immigrants and giving them so many opportunities. I'm grateful every day that my great grandfather chose to come to this country.

[Natan]

some highlights from Jewish history (hey, Israel's only a small part of it):

The bad:
- Internal divisions and civil war in ancient times.
- Drawing secular authorities into religious disputes in the Middle Ages
- Jews who turned to Socialism, Communism, and other movements which tried to end anti-Semitism through assimilation.
- Labor Zionists in Ottoman and mandatory Palestine concentrating on getting Socialist Jews into Israel when Vladimr Jabotinsky understood the need to "liquidate the diaspora before it liquidates you."
- Labor Zionist attempts to crush religion and the persecution of Sephardi Jews in Israel - this is a bad reflection not just on Israel, but on all the Ashkenazi Jews who bought into it. It was people like my grandparents who were being told that money needed to be raised to help "cave dwelling Morroccan immigrants who do not know how to use a toothbrush."

The good:
- The Maccabees
- The Habad movement and its struggle against state-enforced atheism and tyranny in the USSR.
- Jewish unity. There's something special about people who speak different languages and who have never met before treating each other like family.
- Related to that, the speed with which Jews from diverse lands have come together in Israel. It's really inspiring.
- Jews who fought for the human rights of non-Jews, like those who participated in the Civil Rights movement, or certain Israeli politicians today. (not the "peace camp," but people who really care(d), like Zeevi, Gafni, etc.) - these people are a testimony to the fact that Jewish unity doesn't mean a complete disinterest in non-Jewish affairs.