The Best And The Worst Of Your Countries History.

[November Adam]

Originally posted by Osweld



People always say that, but why? What's so grand about vimy ridge? Why does being able to kill people that the other allies couldn't, define our nation? If we are defined by a gruesome battle, that doesn't say much.

It doesn't have to do with killing, when our allies couldn't. It has to do with facing extreme odds with courage.

[Drekkus]

Originally posted by November Adam
In short, Vimy Ridge was a German defensive position, that was taken by Canadian batallions after British, and French forces failed to do so.

I feel like a moron. Should have known that one. I pride myself on my knowledge of WWI. Went to Ypres to see the museum there and the battlefields. Visited the Canadian monument erected to commerorate (sp) the losses by one of the first gas attacks by the germans.
Don't know whether soldiers in WWI were increadibly brave or incredibly stupid to attack with 19th century tactics and weapons against 20th century defensive weapons. But the horror those men went through deserves nothing but respect.

[Chris 62]

I'll do the worst first...

So much to do here, so let's try and get as much as possible.

Not taking the opprotunity to abolish slavery in the US Constituition (as Franklin wanted, but others didn't)

Invention of the cotton gin makes Black slavery attractive again (It had nearly died out by 1800, this device brings it all back)

New England tries to get the USA to invade Canada as a responce to England's "Orders in council", starting war of 1812

US Capital burned 1814

James K Polk is talked into fulfilling "Manifest destiny", and allows hawks in congress to pull off greatest land grab in US history, the Mexican war of 1847-48

Southern Democrats, instead of accepting that slavery was evil, instead inact laws that force anti-slavery North to enforce evil slave catching laws throughout US territories (Dredd Scott decision)

Again, Southern Democrats, using the smoke screen of "States rights", try to suceed from the union, so they could continue their evil practice of slavery free from Northern criticsm, starting US Civil war

Andrew Johnson appoints many Southerners to posts in the South after civil war, during the "Reconstruction", which enables them to pass racist "Jim Crow" laws that would stay in place till the 1960s

NB Forrest forms Klu Klux Klan

A series of US governments break one treaty after another with Indians from 1860s to 1890s, practically eradicating the red man from the USA

Do gooder Woodrow Wilson brings USA into WWI for no good reason against Germany (Reason given is U-Boat war and Zimmerman note, but no one cares that Britain is starving German civilians with a food blockade, forcing Germany to use U-Boats to try to break it)

Wilson allows Lyodd George and Clemenceau to push unfair treaty on Germany, which lead directly to Hitler and the second world war, US congress reacts by refusing to join league of nations, dooming it to faliure.

MacAurther attacks "Bonus army" (US vets of great war, trying to collect the bonus promissed them from US gov during great depression) at Hoover's order, using force against men US gov had cheated out of money from WWI bonus promises.

US fails to allow Jews free emigration from Nazi Germany throughout 1930s, anti-semitism rife, but hidden by "Gentlemen's agreement"

Truman allows Stalin to take all of Eastern Europe, begining cold war, which will not end till 1989 (1945)

US fails to properly assist Chinese nationalists, Communists take China 1947-48

Truman supports French attempt to retake Vietnam with military equipment and loans (1947-54)

US fails to win Korean war, instead, accepts ceasefire that seperates Korea to this day (1953)

Throughout 1950s and 60s, US CIA destabilzes any government that even hints at anti-USA feeling.

JFK, following long democratic tradition, gets USA involved in another foriegn morass, Vietnam, by sending "advisors" to suppost tetering Theiu government.

LBJ, criminally missuses gulf of Tonkin resolution, commits massive US forces to war in Vietnam. (1965)

US press corp lies about war in asia, claims US is losing badly after TET, when in fact, the communists themselves were ready to give the war up, so they end up winning a political victory after catastrophic loss on the battlefield (1968)

Richard Nixon missuses his authority, and is forced to resign (1974)

USA abandons Vietnam to it's fate, millions of anti-communists left high and dry, will become the "Boat people" who flee Vietnam. (1975)

Jimmy Carter is president, a disaster unparrelled (he's a good man, but a boob as a politian)

Iranian Hostage crisis (1979-80)

US Navy spy scandals through early 80s

US attempt to place IBM (intermediate Ballistic Missles) in Europe as a counter to Soviets (early 80s)

Challenger explosion (1986)

George Bush Sr's economic plans

8 years of Clinton, take your pick.

9/11 2001, the day many Americans were murdered.

I'm sure I missed some, but this is enough.
Good list must wait till later.

[Ecthy]

Nice list, Chris

You're telling a lot of truth there and actually admit to outward flaws, while most Americans only consider inner politics...

[Chris 62]

Part of being an historian is to accept truth, no matter how painful, andy.

If I can't look at US history objectivly, it would be impossible to look at other nations histories either.

Still thinking abouit the good list, it will be long also (and probaly sickeningly patriotic, too! )

[Ecthy]

didn#t know you're historian

now the prize question - apart from the dodecade 33-45, what about German history has ever been bad? what? well? nothing

what are 12 years, we rule

[Dr. Nick]

1919-1933 was pretty bad part of German history as well...

[Ecthy]

bah

[Sandman]

Best: Cultivation of crops begins.

Worst: The emergence of nationalism.

[Chris 62]

And the best...

Young nation throws off yoke of the old world, defeats Britain, and adopts US Constituition, a document still revered to this day.

George Washington, first President, declares that 2 terms are enough, 8 years is long enough for one man to rule a nation, and breaks with thousands of years of human history by turning his back on power.

Infant US Navy stands tall vs the French and Napoleon and humiliates France in several navel engagements known as the "XYZ" affair (1798)

Young America refuses to play blackmail to Barbary states, says things like "Millions for defense, not one cent for tribute!", sends it's small navy to fight, and eventually defeats the barbary states (1805-1815)

Small Navy hands Britain humiliating defeats in war of 1812, both on high seas and great lakes.

Fulton builds first practical Steam boat

James Monroe tells old world to stay out of American politics, or it's war! (Monroe Doctrone)

US anti-slavery patrol in caribean begins first federal attempt to end this evil trade (1820s)

US Merchant marine rules the seas for over a century (starting in 1820s)

Young nation freely welcomes immigrants from political turmoil in europe, grows rapidly (1840s)

US rapidly industrializes, builds railroads, and is powerhouse economy that controls 60% of world exports by 1900

US is home to free thinkers and inventors, such as Thomas Edison, the "wizard of Menlow park", who invents practical electric lights, phonograpghsm and many other things.

US is home to many inventions, such as typewriters, zippers, machine tools, the list is endless.

Teddy Rosevelt practically by himself creates wildlife conservation, and puts natural history on the map.

US forces tip balence of power in WWI, allowing allied victory.

USA enables allies to again win, this time WWII, without US help Soviets would have collasped (before anyone shoots their mouth off, USA was providing 70% of all foodstuffs, 80% of all uniforms, 95% of motor transport, 30% of all armor, 40% of al aircraft, amonug other things to Soviets, and similar numbers to Britain)

US, almost single handed, defeats Japan, and frees asia from Japanese rule

USA selflessly offers to rebuild world under "Marshall plan"

America time and again upholds treaties and assists it's allies (Korea, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, ect)

Americans always assist other nations with handouts, most of which are never repaid (only now does Europe give more, USA shouldered this burden for decades with little or no help)

USA shoulders the load for the defense of the free world during cold war, enabling Europe's econmy to recover, and eventually surpass USA's

Great advances in medical science are made in usa (Plasma, Penicillan, first heart transplant, so many others)

USA puts first man on the moon, greatest scientific acchivement in world history.

There are tons more, but I'm to lazy to type more just now.

[Buck Birdseed]

I especially like your description of the Marshall Plan as "selfless".

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Snapcase
I especially like your description of the Marshall Plan as "selfless".

It's also true.

The USA could have done what Britain and France did after the great war, and make the axis pay out it's ass, which, BTW, was standard european behavior after wars for centuries, but the US say how counter-productive such things are, and as a result, Europe is now at peace for 50+ years, is an economic powerhouse, and views wars as unthinkable.

Not bad for a few Cowboys and Yanks to pull off.

[Transcend]

For the US:

Best moment:
- Independence
- Victory in WW2, dropping of the Atomic Bombs
- Victory in the Cold War
- All the technological accomplishments

Worst moment:
- The Great Depression
- Vietnam Debacle
- 9/11


For China:
Best moment:
- Imperial expansions under the Qin and Han Dynasties
- Economic and scientific advances under the Tang and Song Dynasties
- Dropping of the Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
- Economic boom in the 90s.

Worst moment:
- The entire Ming Dynasty
- Boxer Rebellion
- Japanese invasion
- Mao's psychosis during the 60s and 70s.

[Libertarian]

What's so great about the Whisky Rebellion?

Free people pursuing their own happiness in their own way — libertarianism comes alive.

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Chris:

Great lists. I wish your bad list had included the murders at Kent State, Waco, and Ruby Ridge.

[Chris 62]

Fit Kent state in with Nixon, the other two with Clinton.