Next US' targets?

[Saint Marcus]

The US won every battle in Vietnam

the US never invaded Cuba

And you are a dumb****, Ethopia's Army collapsed in the early 1990s, and it was completely rebuilt. There isn't much. Probably 100,000.

And Egypt has the largest army in Africa, you idiot.

Egypt? Ok kiddo. The army biggest in number and material in Africa is Ethiopia. The cause of this was the weapon race with Eritria, which resulted in a war. Now they are disarming (so they claim) but none are believing this to be true.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by red_jon



Bay of pigs?

Look at the rest of my sentence! I said the US trained Cuban Exiles, not invade itself. Ugh, do you know how to read?

Egypt? Ok kiddo. The army biggest in number and material in Africa is Ethiopia. The cause of this was the weapon race with Eritria, which resulted in a war. Now they are disarming (so they claim) but none are believing this to be true.

No. It is not. Egypt has a 448,000 Men Military you idiot. Ethoipia has obsolscene equipiment from thirty-five years ago and so does Eritrea. The only new equipiment they have is MiG-29s, which are falling apart.

Encarta:

http://encarta.msn.com/find/concise.asp?mod=1&ti=761557408&page=6#s36

[Saint Marcus]

No. It is not. Egypt has a 640,000 Men Military you idiot.

Only 640,000? When Dutch peacekeepers went to Ethiopia the papers here were speaking about a 1.2 million man army of Ethiopia. Not all native Ethiopians I expect.

Ethoipia has obsolscene equipiment from thirty-five years ago and so does Eritrea. The only new equipiment they have is MiG-29s, which are falling apart.

It isn't about the most advanced African army. Learn to read please. I said " biggest".

I said the US trained Cuban Exiles, not invade itself.

"The plan originally called for the gradual buildup of anti-Castro forces within Cuba into a cohesive political and military unit capable of toppling Castro. However, the operation quickly escalated into plans for a full-scale invasion, with the budget expanding from $4 million to $46 million and the CIA training and supplying anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Guatemala."

"On April 15, several days before the invasion, CIA pilots destroyed part of Castro's air force. "

Just cause they don't have the American identity doesn't mean it's not a US operation.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Mark L


Only 640,000? When Dutch peacekeepers went to Ethiopia the papers here were speaking about a 1.2 million man army of Ethiopia. Not all native Ethiopians I expect.

Mostly likely because those numbers were pulled out of the air. Ethiopia's Army is around 100,000, that is the estimated size of the ERPDF. ELPF has about half of that. The ERPDF is now called the Ethopian Army and the ELPF is the Eritrean Army.

It isn't about the most advanced African army. Learn to read please. I said " biggest".

Well it isn't.

[Saint Marcus]

[quote]Ethiopia's Army is around 100,000[quote]

Oh really?

The following is a review of the portion of the interview I did on
Eritrean Television in July on the Ethiopians third offensive in the
Ethiopian invasion of Eritrea which took place May-June, 2000. I am going
to keep it short because with the new information coming out on the
internal contradictions that took place within the Eritrean Defense Forces
and the Gov of Eritrea during the third offensive, I am having to bide my
time until more information is released to be able to do a more
comprehensive examination of the dynamics of that portion of the invasion.
First, based on computer aided examination of Ethiopian casualties taken
from video footage we were able to make an estimate of the casualties taken
by the Ethiopian invasionary forces. We did this by taking 100 meter
sections of the front and counting the dead Ethiopians and extrapolating
that figure to the overall length of the three fronts the Ethiopians opened
during their attempt to invade Eritrea.
The figure we arrived at (and this is actually a conservative figure) was
at least 180,000 Ethiopian dead for the third offensive alone. With standard
military estimates of 3 wounded to 1 dead, the Ethiopian army lost close to
3/4 of a million troops during the third offensive alone (180,000 x 3 =
540,000 + 180,000= 720,000 Ethiopian casualties).
If the Ethiopians lost close to 3/4 million of their combat troops, then
they must have had a combat force of at least 1.5 million, with at least one
half of their combat troops incapacitated (again, our estimate of the
Ethiopian combat troops is probably conservative, for what army can take
losses of one half of their combat troops and remain functional?)
Following standard military estimates of a combat to
logistics/supply/reserves ratio of 1:3, if the Ethiopian army had 1.5
million combat troops, the total size of the Ethiopian military must have
been at least 6,000,000 (six million) men.
We have reached an estimate of the number of mechanized divisions the
Ethiopian army was able to field during the third offensive based on the
knowledge that in one section of the front, the Ethiopians had 7 mechanized
divisions. With 3 fronts, a figure of 15 total mechanized divisions ( with
each of the two other fronts only having 4 mechanized divisions) is probably
conservative.
Each mechanized division contains 4 brigades, one of tanks, one of heavy
artillery, one of heavy machine guns and one of anti-aircraft artillery
(AAA). We have been able to confirm the Ethiopians purchased at least 350
new, top of the line Russian/Bulgarian tanks. We have estimated that the
Ethiopian army's mechanized divisions contained at least 3,000 heavy
artillery, 4-5,000 heavy machine guns and close to that many AAA.
We have also confirmed that the Ethiopians purchased at least 80-100
helicopter gunships, 25 Israeli upgraded MIG fighters, and an unknown number
of heavy bombers, recon aircraft and light helicopters.
Our estimates of the cost of these weapons is at least $500,000,000 (five
hundred million US $).
With an army of 6 million, including 15 up to date mechanized divisions,
supported by air power, the Ethiopian army invaded Eritrea (population 3.5
million) and sustained in 2 months almost 3/4 of a million casualties. This
ranks as one of the major defeats in the 20th century, with a two month
casualty figure comparable to the worst of WW1.
The Ethiopians are now publically admitting that they spent at least $3
billion on the war. Ethiopian coffee exports ( the only real export earner
the Ethiopians have) brought in at the most $200 million in the year 2000.
Where did Ethiopia get $3 billion to invade Eritrea?
Or maybe we should be asking how many laws in what western countries were
broken, with the knowledge of what top leaders, when the Ethiopians diverted
this $3 billion in aid to arms purchases? In other words, this was not a
"border conflict", rather a western funded invasion of Eritrea. At the very
least, the western powers had to have approved this holocaust before hand,
if not having actually instigated it.
I can not honestly understand the logic of those who want to blame the
Eritrean leadership for the invasion. Either the west paid for this and did
not know (the CIA didnt know that hundreds of millions of $US were being
diverted to arms purchases from Russia and Bulgaria?) or this holocaust was
approved from the beginning by the same powers that armed the Hutu militias
in Rwanda and then pretended they did not know that holocaust was happening.
This wasnt a "border conflict" between 2 "former comrades in arms", rather
a western funded attempt to destroy Eritrea.

[Saint Marcus]

this is not "mine" btw.

[Giancarlo]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Mark L
[quote]Ethiopia's Army is around 100,000

Oh really?

The following is a review of the portion of the interview I did on
Eritrean Television in July on the Ethiopians third offensive in the
Ethiopian invasion of Eritrea which took place May-June, 2000. I am going
to keep it short because with the new information coming out on the
internal contradictions that took place within the Eritrean Defense Forces
and the Gov of Eritrea during the third offensive, I am having to bide my
time until more information is released to be able to do a more
comprehensive examination of the dynamics of that portion of the invasion.
First, based on computer aided examination of Ethiopian casualties taken
from video footage we were able to make an estimate of the casualties taken
by the Ethiopian invasionary forces. We did this by taking 100 meter
sections of the front and counting the dead Ethiopians and extrapolating
that figure to the overall length of the three fronts the Ethiopians opened
during their attempt to invade Eritrea.
The figure we arrived at (and this is actually a conservative figure) was
at least 180,000 Ethiopian dead for the third offensive alone. With standard
military estimates of 3 wounded to 1 dead, the Ethiopian army lost close to
3/4 of a million troops during the third offensive alone (180,000 x 3 =
540,000 + 180,000= 720,000 Ethiopian casualties).
If the Ethiopians lost close to 3/4 million of their combat troops, then
they must have had a combat force of at least 1.5 million, with at least one
half of their combat troops incapacitated (again, our estimate of the
Ethiopian combat troops is probably conservative, for what army can take
losses of one half of their combat troops and remain functional?)
Following standard military estimates of a combat to
logistics/supply/reserves ratio of 1:3, if the Ethiopian army had 1.5
million combat troops, the total size of the Ethiopian military must have
been at least 6,000,000 (six million) men.
We have reached an estimate of the number of mechanized divisions the
Ethiopian army was able to field during the third offensive based on the
knowledge that in one section of the front, the Ethiopians had 7 mechanized
divisions. With 3 fronts, a figure of 15 total mechanized divisions ( with
each of the two other fronts only having 4 mechanized divisions) is probably
conservative.
Each mechanized division contains 4 brigades, one of tanks, one of heavy
artillery, one of heavy machine guns and one of anti-aircraft artillery
(AAA). We have been able to confirm the Ethiopians purchased at least 350
new, top of the line Russian/Bulgarian tanks. We have estimated that the
Ethiopian army's mechanized divisions contained at least 3,000 heavy
artillery, 4-5,000 heavy machine guns and close to that many AAA.
We have also confirmed that the Ethiopians purchased at least 80-100
helicopter gunships, 25 Israeli upgraded MIG fighters, and an unknown number
of heavy bombers, recon aircraft and light helicopters.
Our estimates of the cost of these weapons is at least $500,000,000 (five
hundred million US $).
With an army of 6 million, including 15 up to date mechanized divisions,
supported by air power, the Ethiopian army invaded Eritrea (population 3.5
million) and sustained in 2 months almost 3/4 of a million casualties. This
ranks as one of the major defeats in the 20th century, with a two month
casualty figure comparable to the worst of WW1.
The Ethiopians are now publically admitting that they spent at least $3
billion on the war. Ethiopian coffee exports ( the only real export earner
the Ethiopians have) brought in at the most $200 million in the year 2000.
Where did Ethiopia get $3 billion to invade Eritrea?
Or maybe we should be asking how many laws in what western countries were
broken, with the knowledge of what top leaders, when the Ethiopians diverted
this $3 billion in aid to arms purchases? In other words, this was not a
"border conflict", rather a western funded invasion of Eritrea. At the very
least, the western powers had to have approved this holocaust before hand,
if not having actually instigated it.
I can not honestly understand the logic of those who want to blame the
Eritrean leadership for the invasion. Either the west paid for this and did
not know (the CIA didnt know that hundreds of millions of $US were being
diverted to arms purchases from Russia and Bulgaria?) or this holocaust was
approved from the beginning by the same powers that armed the Hutu militias
in Rwanda and then pretended they did not know that holocaust was happening.
This wasnt a "border conflict" between 2 "former comrades in arms", rather
a western funded attempt to destroy Eritrea.

Why should I believe this. And how could they have maintained a 1 million men army when they couldn't even maintain a 320,000 in 1991?

The ERPDF Airforce from 2000:

(Taken from mylima.com/airforce)

Su-27A/U - 10
MiG-23 Floggers - 22 (Nearing Uselessness)
MiG-21 FISHBEDs - 22 (Useless)
MiG-17 Frescos - 15 (Useless)

[Saint Marcus]

it's called an arms race.

From another cource:

The following story confirms earlier estimates by the Eritrean government of
the major losses inflicted on the Ethiopian army in their US/EU funded
invasion of Eritrea by the Eritrean Defense Forces. Western press had
downplayed the Eritrean estimates, claiming that the Eritrean were
"defeated". The reality is that the Ethiopian military lost anywhere from
1/5 to 1/3 (this being a conservative estimate for usually wounded make up a
larger number than dead) of their military, many of them their best troops,
based on estimates of the size of the Ethiopian military being in the
600,000 to 1,000,000 range. This enormous slaughter was paid for and
encouraged by the US and EU, who funded the invasion of Eritrea to the tune
of over $2 billion in "aid" diverted to the invasion attempt.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Mark L
it's called an arms race.

From another cource:

No! Don't intimindate me you fool.

The ERPDF Airforce from 2000:

(Taken from mylima.com/airforce)

Su-27A/U - 10
MiG-23 Floggers - 22 (Nearing Uselessness)
MiG-21 FISHBEDs - 22 (Useless)
MiG-17 Frescos - 15 (Useless)

I don't see anything in there! Those are stats from 2000!!!!!!!! Most of those are crappy migs. And the MiG-17 is very, very old.

I actually provided a link. They have nothing. 1,600 T-64s from the 1960s... Library of Congress says that.

[Saint Marcus]

we're talking about manpower, not number of aircraft.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Mark L
we're talking about manpower, not number of aircraft.

As I said the size of their army can't be any more than 320,000.

[Saint Marcus]

More sources:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A FEROCIOUS war between the famine-stricken African states of Ethiopia and Eritrea exploded again on Friday with a new round of heavy border fighting two days after a UN team abandoned a peace effort and left.
Both sides said their armies were battling in disputed areas of the border and Eritrea accused its enemy of launching an offensive with "human wave assaults".

An estimated 600 000 soldiers are deployed along the border and tens of thousands were killed in two previous rounds of First World War-style fighting with troops sent out from their trenches to face massive artillery fire.

Yermane Gebremeskel, a senior Eritrean government official, said Ethiopian artillery units began heavy shelling at around midnight on Thursday in the biggest offensive since March last year, when Eritrea claimed it killed 15 000 Ethiopian troops in just three days.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Mark L
More sources:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A FEROCIOUS war between the famine-stricken African states of Ethiopia and Eritrea exploded again on Friday with a new round of heavy border fighting two days after a UN team abandoned a peace effort and left.
Both sides said their armies were battling in disputed areas of the border and Eritrea accused its enemy of launching an offensive with "human wave assaults".

An estimated 600 000 soldiers are deployed along the border and tens of thousands were killed in two previous rounds of First World War-style fighting with troops sent out from their trenches to face massive artillery fire.

Yermane Gebremeskel, a senior Eritrean government official, said Ethiopian artillery units began heavy shelling at around midnight on Thursday in the biggest offensive since March last year, when Eritrea claimed it killed 15 000 Ethiopian troops in just three days.

Again more sources without links. And not very credible.

[Saint Marcus]

the last is from the Daily Mail.

So how can Ethiopia send 600,000 troops if they have less than 320,000 troops?

[Saint Marcus]

The Eritrean army has a strategy of pulling out of territory in order to minimise its casualties. Analysts say this is a strategy born of the realities of a tiny nation of 3,5 million fighting an enemy 20 times its size.

From the Guardian.