The X-Box is here -- Are you ready? ;)

[Asher]

Originally posted by monkspider
I still stand by my statement, I don't consider many of the X-Box games in the lower 80's to be all that great. And there is little doubt of how impressive of Nintendo it was to get so many great titles at launch out. Especially when faced with a huge-multi game X-Box launch. It's really regrettable that so many of those games turned out to be stinkers.

Out of curiousity, have you played all those games you don't consider to be that great?
Didn't think so. 'nuff said.

Time will tell, I don't know if anything offical has been annouced, and it's possible that DOA3 was designed with some of the X-Box features in mind.

Huh?!
Did you not see the statement from the lead developer saying it'd be an Xbox exclusive and that it'd be impossible to port it to any other system without significant cutbacks?

[monkspider]

Hey asher,
I don't argue that the X-Box is probably technically better than the PS2. But it's all for rot if the X-Box has a very limited number of killer apps. Sure it has two solid games now, but the outlook is simply not good as good as the other systems. It has the worst third-party support of the three systems right now, I grant that that situation may improve in the future, but there is no doubt that at the moment at least it is inferior in that category. Probably around 95% or greater of the games on X-BOX will be available in some other format, while I have no link for this exact statistic, looking at the games at launch and in the immediate future, the only killer app that is totally X-Box exclusive is DoA3. And even that is not entirely written in stone, but more on that later. Whether it's PC or one of the other two consoles, almost all other good X-Box games will be available elsewhere. In fact, most of the really good games on tap for X-Box for at least the first half of next year are games that PS2 owners have been playing and enjoying for months! I will say it again, but all the processing power in the world will do you no good with out a strong host of killer apps. PS2 speaks for itself, and Nintendo has an even stronger supply of exclusive AAA games. It's first party is the best in the buisness, I can see that perhaps you aren't too fond of nintendo games. But there is no doubt that they are considered by the vast majority of the gaming press and so forth to be "great" games. Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, plus Nintendo has even secured the right to Seven (!) Resident Evil games. X-Box simply can't make those sort of claims. Besides, if you try to rule out Nintendo games based on your own personal preferences , then fine I personally hate FPS games, 3-D fighters, and Racers, which are, almost comically, the only genres X-Box is currently doing decently on. As it stands now, it's got the hardware, but it lacks the most important part of a successful system, the software. You can mention any number of obsecure X-Box graphical statistics, but it is all for rot without games. And not even you, the x-box zealot, could deny that.
You keep mentioning PS2 not being able to handle DoA3. I still have seen no reason to believe that X-Box is significantly better graphically than PS2. Even if there were graphical cutbacks, anyone who hadn't played the X-Box version for hundreds of hours would probably never notice any slight differences, like the loss of a frame or two of animation, or maybe a few less polygons. Also, DOA2 was supposed to be exclusive to Sega, but we all know how that went. DoA3 may be exclusive, but not Super DoA3 or something of the like. We will just have to see how things go.

[CapTVK]

Let's see what ebay has to say about it.

Some newspapers mention that xbox is already sold out in some places. But just how succesful IS the xbox? Let's take a quick look at the most recent biddings at ebay. This short list was obtained by doing a simple search on "xbox"

• NEW XBOX System, 3 games 2 cntlrs DVD + more $725.00 - in 0 mins
• XBOX Baseball Cap, hat Never worn! $16.01 7 in 0 mins
  Microsoft X box - xbox Build your own package $202.50 13 in 2 mins
• BRAND NEW XBOX SYSTEM + EXTRAS! NO RESERVE! $425.00 - in 2 mins
• XBOX New X-BOX w/ Halo and extra controller $450.00 - in 4 mins
• Xbox bundle SEALED,Microsoft NR! $325.00 38 in 4 mins
• XBOX GET IT NOW NIB !! AVAILABLE NOW $325.00 - in 4 mins
• Brand New XBox Baseball Cap, Hat Never Worn!! $16.03 5 in 4 mins
• XBOX GAMING UNIT PLUS EXTRA'S $102.50 5 in 4 mins
  Microsoft XBOX-3Games-Accessories-Warranty $202.50 8 in 4 mins
• XBOX New X-BOX w/ Halo and extra controller $450.00 - in 7 mins
• XBOX MICROSOFT XBOX BUNDLE 2 GAME YOUR CHOICE $305.00
• Microsoft XBOX System BRAND NEW !!! $112.50 3 in 9 mins
• XBOX FREE SHIPPING UPS Sealed w/ Receipts $350.00 - in 10 mins
• Microsoft XBOX System BRAND NEW !!! $305.00 7 in 10 mins
• Brand new xbox system,2 controlers,2 games NR $485.00 2 in 11 mins
• New XBOX system w/receipt-7 systems to sell! $345.00 7 in 16 mins
  

hmmm, it seems alot of these auctions don't even reach the official retail price ($400). Alot of hawkers and "would be speculators" are probably kicking themselves.


Have fun with your new purchase!

[Wiglaf]

Long way off being 5-6 months, sure.
Patches? Didn't I already discuss that?
I'm content with all of the demos loaded on Xbox discs as it is right now. By the time I'll need updated demos I'll get to download them.

that'll never happen. effective, solid demos available for a console that didn't even launch with net support to begin with? besides, in this industry, most developers would probably shy away from that sort of thing. the demos of previous consoles were poorly done, and generally shipped as a bonus with magazines or something.

I'd imagine this sort of thing would be a paid service, if it ever pops up at all.

How far can you bull**** before you just give up?

Unfounded rhetoric tends to be your forte. Give me some links with details.

I can't link the article, it's one of the many benefits AOL gives you for paying them $22 bucks a month.

really, it basically says retailers are more interested in PS2 and GCN, and the most wanted games (based on polls and analysis) had nothing from the xbox. not even *gasp* halo.

Mmhmm.

if that ain't bull**** I dunno what is.

Don't have the paper, it went out with recycle sunday morn'.

dig it up, chase it down, do something.

Was this the aritcle you mentioned, Wiglaf?

no.

[Asher]

Originally posted by monkspider
Hey asher,
I don't argue that the X-Box is probably technically better than the PS2. But it's all for rot if the X-Box has a very limited number of killer apps. Sure it has two solid games now, but the outlook is simply not good as good as the other systems. It has the worst third-party support of the three systems right now, I grant that that situation may improve in the future, but there is no doubt that at the moment at least it is inferior in that category. Probably around 95% or greater of the games on X-BOX will be available in some other format, while I have no link for this exact statistic, looking at the games at launch and in the immediate future, the only killer app that is totally X-Box exclusive is DoA3. And even that is not entirely written in stone, but more on that later. Whether it's PC or one of the other two consoles, almost all other good X-Box games will be available elsewhere. In fact, most of the really good games on tap for X-Box for at least the first half of next year are games that PS2 owners have been playing and enjoying for months! I will say it again, but all the processing power in the world will do you no good with out a strong host of killer apps.

Once again, the PS2's launch was actually considerably worse game-wise than the Xbox is.
For a brand new console gaming platform, I think it's off to fantastic start.
You keep saying "blahblah, no killer apps and all killer apps on other platforms too!"
There's simply no foundation for that (sure, Halo will be on PC...but what about the entire FF series too?).
The PS2 isn't exactly very 'original' with their titles either. I recall Unreal Tournament, Half-Life, etc. being on the PS2. But suddenly when the Xbox gets a PC port everyone starts ranting about how the Xbox is just a PC, etcetc.

PS2 speaks for itself, and Nintendo has an even stronger supply of exclusive AAA games.

Again, there's no foundation for this.
When the PS2 came out, it had a situation far worse than the Xbox's is. The good games come with time, they're not rushed for launch title releases.

It's first party is the best in the buisness, I can see that perhaps you aren't too fond of nintendo games. But there is no doubt that they are considered by the vast majority of the gaming press and so forth to be "great" games. Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, plus Nintendo has even secured the right to Seven (!) Resident Evil games. X-Box simply can't make those sort of claims.

I own an N64. Mario, Zelda, and Donkey Kong are not my thing. In fact, most mature gamers don't enjoy those games.
Resident Evil, however, is indeed a killer title. I'd love to play that.
But I'm willing to bet the people who signed the Resident Evil contract with Nintendo are kicking themselves in the ass for not signing one with either Sony or Microsoft.

Besides, if you try to rule out Nintendo games based on your own personal preferences , then fine I personally hate FPS games, 3-D fighters, and Racers, which are, almost comically, the only genres X-Box is currently doing decently on.

The thing has been out for 5 days!
You can say the same about the GC: The only thing it's doing good on is its puzzle games or SW flightsim games.

As it stands now, it's got the hardware, but it lacks the most important part of a successful system, the software.

It's got the software, moreso than the Gamecube.
According to Futureshop (local electronics retailer), Xbox is having 41 additional games out by Christmas, while Gamecube is having "about" 20. Some of the Xbox games scheduled for release are guaranteed best sellers like NHL 2002, Max Payne, SSX Tricky (Sequel to SSX, the launch title for PS2 you liked so much), SW: Starfighter, RAW (eww ).

You can mention any number of obsecure X-Box graphical statistics, but it is all for rot without games. And not even you, the x-box zealot, could deny that.

Xbox zealot?
I said all three systems are great, all three will survive.
The Xbox simply one-ups the competition in virtually every category, and has the added advantage of a $500M marketing campaign behind it, the ease of development (how many books can you buy on DirectX development vs. Gamecube or PS2?), and cheap development. It's got everything going for it, the only zealots here are the people who think the Xbox is going to fail.

You keep mentioning PS2 not being able to handle DoA3. I still have seen no reason to believe that X-Box is significantly better graphically than PS2. Even if there were graphical cutbacks, anyone who hadn't played the X-Box version for hundreds of hours would probably never notice any slight differences, like the loss of a frame or two of animation, or maybe a few less polygons. Also, DOA2 was supposed to be exclusive to Sega, but we all know how that went. DoA3 may be exclusive, but not Super DoA3 or something of the like. We will just have to see how things go.

Again, you seem to be having trouble understanding the hardware side of things.
The PS2 has half the memory bandwidth, a lot less total memory, and an overall weaker graphics unit. The emotion engine couldn't keep up with all of the calculations as fast as the Xbox GPU can, you'd need to cut down the level of the polygons just to get it to run decently. Next thing you know, it's DOA2 with more characters. It's not worth their effort.

hmmm, it seems alot of these auctions don't even reach the official retail price ($400). Alot of hawkers and "would be speculators" are probably kicking themselves.

Official retail price is $299.99, not $400

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
that'll never happen. effective, solid demos available for a console that didn't even launch with net support to begin with? besides, in this industry, most developers would probably shy away from that sort of thing. the demos of previous consoles were poorly done, and generally shipped as a bonus with magazines or something.

I'd imagine this sort of thing would be a paid service, if it ever pops up at all.

Do you even realize what you're saying?
Do you think things through that often?
Microsoft is pretty much guaranteed to take a loss on the Xbox. They're not making the Xbox for profits. They want people to buy games, and lots of them. Why do you think it's so unrealistic for them to let people demo all the new, cool games for free so they can have the people go buy them later?
It would make no sense whatsoever for Microsoft to charge people for game demos. It'd never happen.

You also act like developers aren't making demos as it is. On my Halo disc alone, I can play a few levels of Oddworld and FusionFrenzy, plus it's got video of about 7 other games. It's not a far stretch at all for MS to put up the demos on one of their servers and let everyone download it.

I can't link the article, it's one of the many benefits AOL gives you for paying them $22 bucks a month.

really, it basically says retailers are more interested in PS2 and GCN, and the most wanted games (based on polls and analysis) had nothing from the xbox. not even *gasp* halo.

Well, I've cited sources that clearly state otherwise.
Since you can't be bothered to find me some actual links, I'm just going to take it for the rhetoric it is.

[Wiglaf]

Well, I've cited sources that clearly state otherwise.
Since you can't be bothered to find me some actual links, I'm just going to take it for the rhetoric it is.

there are no damn links.

It would make no sense whatsoever for Microsoft to charge people for game demos. It'd never happen.

they'd probably have a premium ISP service or something. and, mark my word, xbox will be a failure anyway. sorry I won't be a part of your twisted little future society, where animals run completely free of leash or masters and the communism that you support now on apolyton, apparantly without normal earthly rest, is set to override our current antitrust laws that in the long run, and in reality, end up keeping those same dirty and smelly animals locked up and off the now perfectly clean highways and public transit systems before anyone even hints at taking them out at all, whether it be for a little walk or a journey to another state. it doesn't matter if the dog is the ever lovable clifford or the pest in your backyard that everyone wants removed, or the cat in the meow mix ads or whatever, there has to be someone to beat the thing down when it doesn't 'sit' when the justice department branch of the united states government tells it to after giving five whole years of honest and good warning. breaking up the animal is a bit harsh, granted, but that will never happen anyway, with the way things are going.

Do you even realize what you're saying?
Do you think things through that often?

Yes and Yes.

Microsoft is pretty much guaranteed to take a loss on the Xbox. They're not making the Xbox for profits.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
they'd probably have a premium ISP service or something. and, mark my word, xbox will be a failure anyway.

You are so, so backwards I don't know where to start. Oh, wait, yes I do:

sorry I won't be a part of your twisted little future society, where animals run completely free of leash or masters and the communism that you support now on apolyton, apparantly without normal earthly rest, is set to override our current antitrust laws that in the long run, and in reality, end up keeping those same dirty and smelly animals locked up and off the now perfectly clean highways and public transit systems before anyone even hints at taking them out at all, whether it be for a little walk or a journey to another state.

That is one of the worst examples of grammar I have ever seen.
Not only is it completely outrageous, but it's barely readable and off topic.
And you also called me a communist?
I'm a communist for supporting the Xbox? Err...right.
I think that one paragraph right there just ruined your whole entire argument in the history of this thread.

it doesn't matter if the dog is the ever lovable clifford or the pest in your backyard that everyone wants removed, or the cat in the meow mix ads or whatever, there has to be someone to beat the thing down when it doesn't 'sit' when the justice department branch of the united states government tells it to after giving five whole years of honest and good warning.

I would put that in my sig if it wasn't such a damn eyesore.

You really think MS intends to turn a reasonable profit on the Xbox?

You are so hopelessly clueless when it comes to business.
Really and truly...

[Wiglaf]

You are so, so backwards I don't know where to start. Oh, wait, yes I do:

How am I backwards? Care to explain in your own words?

That is one of the worst examples of grammar I have ever seen.
Not only is it completely outrageous, but it's barely readable and off topic.
And you also called me a communist?
I'm a communist for supporting the Xbox? Err...right.
I think that one paragraph right there just ruined your whole entire argument in the history of this thread.

First off, the grammar is damn near perfect. secondly, how is it outrageous? it's very readable given enough time, and the off topic part is just a cover. you know it's related to one of the damn MS threads floating around here.

yes, you are a communist, not because you support the xbox (although depending on your age, that factors into it), but mainly because of your opposition to tried and true american laws that prevent us from being taken over by big, law bending businesses.

You really think MS intends to turn a reasonable profit on the Xbox?

MS will make money on the xbox, no doubts there. The question lies in what they'll do with it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
How am I backwards? Care to explain in your own words?

Well, for one you have no f*cking clue what a communist is, apparently.
For another, you keep making the most hilarious comments that I'm starting to think you're intentionally doing it.

First off, the grammar is damn near perfect. secondly, how is it outrageous? it's very readable given enough time, and the off topic part is just a cover. you know it's related to one of the damn MS threads floating around here.

Ever heard of a run-on sentence?
And it's off-topic from this thread.

yes, you are a communist, not because you support the xbox (although depending on your age, that factors into it), but mainly because of your opposition to tried and true american laws that prevent us from being taken over by big, law bending businesses.

Oh
My
God.
ROFLMAO.

That's in my sig.

MS will make money on the xbox, no doubts there. The question lies in what they'll do with it.

Yeah, analysts predict it'll break even in 2004.
Xbox isn't there for profit, it's there to break into the consumer's living room. Set a standard, try to push its way into the market. Xbox2, now there will be an interesting and profitable system.

[Wiglaf]

Well, for one you have no f*cking clue what a communist is, apparently.
For another, you keep making the most hilarious comments that I'm starting to think you're intentionally doing it.

Let's consult Webster, since you're so fond of it.

Main Entry: comámuánist
Pronunciation: 'kÅ m-y&-nist
Function: noun
Date: 1840
1 : an adherent or advocate of communism
2 : capitalized : COMMUNARD
3 a : capitalized : a member of a Communist party or movement b : often capitalized : an adherent or advocate of a Communist government, party, or movement.
4 : often capitalized : one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or revolutionary activities
- communist adjective, often cap
- comámuánisátic /"kŠm-y&-'nis-tik/ adjective, often cap
- comámuánisátiácalály /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

Fine, it's a terrible definition of the wrong word. In any event, you're still a communard or whatever the thing says.

Ever heard of a run-on sentence?
And it's off-topic from this thread.

a run on is a combination of sentences, not a big one, glonky.

Oh
My
God.
ROFLMAO.

That's in my sig.

Look up 'communist', you'd be suprised. MS actually fits the bill quite nicely.

Yeah, analysts predict it'll break even in 2004.
Xbox isn't there for profit, it's there to break into the consumer's living room. Set a standard, try to push its way into the market. Xbox2, now there will be an interesting and profitable system.

analysts? link? sweeping statements, business terms. back them up and don't recycle the article this time around.

[Asher]

I skipped the first part of your comment because you have to be ****ing with me.

Oh, and I know what a runon is. Your sentence was a runon, even using the definition you gave.

Originally posted by Wiglaf
analysts? link? sweeping statements, business terms. back them up and don't recycle the article this time around.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/011116/n13129546_1.html

And I quote:

Morgan Stanley analyst Mary Meeker said last week Microsoft could lose $1 billion on Xbox by fiscal 2004 before breaking even and the company has said that it will look to make up for any losses on the box with high-margin game software.

``I don't think of that as upside or downside, it's just called running a business,'' Microsoft's Bach said.

Other companies have a stake in the ultimate success of the Xbox. Graphics chip manufacturer NVIDIA Corp. (NasdaqNM:NVDA - news), already the leader in that industry, said last week 15 percent of its revenue in the last quarter came from its Xbox chip.

Contract manufacturer Flextronics International Ltd. (NasdaqNM:FLEX - news) is building the Xbox for Microsoft, and some analysts have estimated the contract could be worth over $1 billion a year.

Analysts estimate Flextronics is being paid about $375 for each Xbox it makes, meaning a $76 loss for Microsoft at the cash register.

``The better Xbox does, the more money Microsoft will lose ... because they're losing money on every unit they sell,'' said Art Russell, an analyst at Edward Jones and Co.

But with $36 billion in the bank, Microsoft has staying power, he said.

``I think Microsoft is here to stay in the video game industry and I think people better get used to it,'' he said.

I especially like the last line.

[jep]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Look up 'communist', you'd be suprised. MS actually fits the bill quite nicely.

communist, n. one who espouses communism.

Last I checked, I didn't see Microsoft concerning itself over the plight of the proletariate.

Do you mean internally? But, like any other large corporation, Microsoft's internal organization is more like a feudal monarchy than a Communist state. Of course, this isn't even getting into the question of which form of communism you're talking about. And are you talking about generic economic and political communism? Generic Economic Comunism (TM) you've got government ownership of all assets with centrally directed production and rationing. Generic Political Communism (TM), also known as Bolshevik communism (after the Bolshevik party), or leninism you've got the despotic-style government, the 'we know what's best for the people' attitude.

There are a dozen other forms of communism, too.

If it's not blatantly obvious to you yet, how about I make it slightly more clear: the entire idea that a large multi-national corporation whose employees are primarily white-collar is communist is seriously, seriously amusing. You should like... read a few books before you make yourself look anymore stupid.

analysts? link? sweeping statements, business terms. back them up and don't recycle the article this time around.

Dude... MS is expected to loose somewhere between $75-$100 on each unit shipped. They hope to make the money back by making the system cheaper to build (and hopefully stop loosing as much money on the main unit), and on the much more profitable software.



XBox's primary importance, however, is to give Microsoft a foothold in the living room.

MS is fairly concerned about AOL's AOL Everywhere plan and they've concluded AOL is their #1 threat. You can see why they're concerned, AOL Everywhere de-emphasises the PC, something MS doesn't want (Windows being such a great cash-cow and all). The terms of Microsoft's settlement of the DoJ give AOL a lot of room to manoever, if they're able to get down and dirty with the OEM's. MS sees a potential to be unseated as software's prima-donna, and they aren't going to stand for it.

XBox will probably converge with UltimateTV in XBox2, expect native support for HailStorm - which should have been nicely setup by Longhorn by then. With XBox 2 in the living room and Longhorn/Blackcombe on the desktop, MS has the consumer market fairly secured from AOL's possible intrusions.

MS have also got their TabletPC and PocketPC stuff, which are blatantly aimed at businesses. This really is the important one, since the business platform will play a big part in the battle for mindshare amongst home users.

MS plan to out-everywhere AOL Everywhere. And don't even get me started on Sun.

MS have already won this battle. The rest is just is a formality. (you think they plan on keeping that $36 billion they have in cash hanging around collecting dust? the only reason any sane management collects that much liquid assets is if they plan on doing something with them!)


AOL thinks very tactically, they tend to plan every move in detail looking ahead at least 12 months. MS thinks strategically, and they tend to plan about 3 years into the future, they have a very good understanding of the long-term and very long-term which AOL seems to lack.

[monkspider]

"Once again, the PS2's launch was actually considerably worse game-wise than the Xbox is."

-Says who, you? I think I have proven earlier that PS2 did much better games-wise with their launch. They had some shortage problems and so forth, but their games *WERE* better.
I shall reiterate one more time for you.
SSX, Ridge Racer, Tekken Tag, Madden 2001, DoA2 hardcore
vs Halo, DoA3. I guess if you really like those two games it is your opinion that it is better, but for the vast majority of the gaming public that's simply not true. 5 AAA games *IS* simply better than 2 AAA games, and I don't think I need a link for that.


"You keep saying "blahblah, no killer apps and all killer apps on other platforms too!"
There's simply no foundation for that (sure, Halo will be on PC...but what about the entire FF series too?)."
How on earth so? Are you really that dense? I clearly layed out the fact that most good games for X-Box for at least for the first half of 2001 will be versions of PS2 games that have been out for months, ior n some cases even, close to a year! Also, many of the games will appear on the PC, since the X-Box seems to have sort of a PC-slant to it. Also FF X won't be on the PC. There have only been two FF games on the PC it the entire history of the series, and those would be FF VII and FF VIII. Hardly the entire FF series. Thus, I shall once again negate one of your blatantly false statements. Sorry Ashie So what I said was simply truth, thus I would say my arguements *DO* stand on pretty firm foundation indeed.




"I own an N64. Mario, Zelda, and Donkey Kong are not my thing. In fact, most mature gamers don't enjoy those games."


:lol" where on earth do you get this statistic? Your own personal preference? I happen to know a good 20 or so guys at my university who adore the Mario series. Heck, I even know a professor who really likes Mario. So your personal preference proves little. Reviewers have nothing but good things to say for Mario, and they should certainly be consider mature no? Unless you want to consider them brainless tools of the Nintendo propaganda machine. But I know it's not your style to say something ridculous like that. Anyway, I could just as easily pidgeon hole FPS games as games for "brainless, pimply faced nerds", and games that "mature" gamers would avoid like the plague. You see? Your silly reasoning can cut both ways. I'm sure you can respond "but Halo is violent, it's got blood and guts!! It's mature dude!" But if violence level rather quality of gameplay is what makes a game for you, it is clear you wouldn't fit into the category of what is considered "mature gamers".




It's got the software, moreso than the Gamecube.
According to Futureshop (local electronics retailer), Xbox is having 41 additional games out by Christmas, while Gamecube is having "about" 20. Some of the Xbox games scheduled for release are guaranteed best sellers like NHL 2002, Max Payne, SSX Tricky (Sequel to SSX, the launch title for PS2 you liked so much), SW: Starfighter, RAW (eww ).

-Sorry to break it to you, but those titles are either available for PS2 and Gamecube now, or will be at more or less the same time as X-Box gets them. In other words, X-Box will have no real advantage per se with these games. They *are* good games but good games every other system has already had in most cases. In fact SSX: Tricky is out for Gamecube *AND* PS2 already! Actually now that I think about it, RAW is technically an X-BOX exclusive (I think), but I know PS2 is getting a lot of WWF games too. Including an exclusive title that is the only wrestling game that I personally would buy, "Legends of Wrestling"!



Again, you seem to be having trouble understanding the hardware side of things.
The PS2 has half the memory bandwidth, a lot less total memory, and an overall weaker graphics unit. The emotion engine couldn't keep up with all of the calculations as fast as the Xbox GPU can, you'd need to cut down the level of the polygons just to get it to run decently. Next thing you know, it's DOA2 with more characters. It's not worth their effort.

-Honestly, I don't study the hardware side of things too throughly. So you may be right. And if you are, that is one victory for the X-Box. But, from my experience with both systems, and I have played X-Box gX-Box isn't "vaames at EB, so don't think me completely ignorant, I just have seen nothing to indicate X-Box is "vastly" superior to PS2 graphically. I still stand by belief that a slightly-scaled back version would be highly possible. Programmers can do some great things, I'm sure if they wanted to make a decent PS2 port of DoA2 they could. Must I remind you of the awesome Street Fighter Alpha 2 port for SUPER NINTENDO? Or Resident Evil 1 for GAMEBOY? Programmors are a resilient lot, and there is far less diference between a PS and Super Nintendo then a PS2 and a X-Box, I can say with fair assurance on that.

I know I seem harsh on the X-Box, but I probably will buy one one day. In fact, I'm fairly certain that I will. I still proudly display my Saturn in my dorm room. I just fear that you may be basing your love for this system on fierce allegiance to Microsoft more than anything else. Also, you're a good debater, I certainly can't take that away from you.

[monkspider]

And yes Wiglaf, being a proud Leftist, you really need to learn what Communism actually is. Microsoft is the ANTI-THESIS of Communism!