The X-Box is here -- Are you ready? ;)

[monkspider]

Shrek 5.6
NHL Hitz 20-02 8.0
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x 7.5
4x4 Evolution 2 7.1
Dead or Alive 3 9.4
NFL Fever 2002 7.9
Halo 9.7
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee 7.4
Project Gotham Racing 8.8
Fuzion Frenzy 8.3
Madden NFL 2002 8.6
NASCAR Thunder 2002 8.5
Test Drive Off-Road -- Wide Open 7.0
Cel Damage 6.5
Dark Summit 7.9

Sure, there are some stinkers on there. But way less than PS2's launch had, that's for damn sure.

-Hardly, 2 or three good games against half a dozen? As these reviews show, the X-Box didn't even hold water against the Gamecube's launch! It's pure idiocy to imply a system so blatantly in a distant third right now can even compare to a system so firmly entrenched in the leader position.

Here's the Gamecube's launch lineup:
Luigi's Mansion 7.0
Madden NFL 2002 8.7
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader 9.1
Super Monkey Ball 8.3
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 9.1
Wave Race: Blue Storm 9.2

A good solid launch, many props to nintendo.

[Asher]

Originally posted by monkspider
- Of course it's flying of the shelf! They only were able to publish a virtual thimble full! It's not hard for one or two copies of something to "fly" of the shelf.

700,000-800,000 copies equals one or two?

Says who? You? That's your opinion but there are plenty of others who would see things differently. From what I understand X-Box, theoretically at least, has the most graphical potential, but that potential is wasted if the games can't take advantage of them.

Anyone with eyes?
Go look at the screenshots, compare them for yourself.
PS2 can't output to Dolby Digital 5.1 or progressive scan pictures, either.

-PS2's launch wasn't very exciting, but Tekken Tag, DoA2, NHL, Madden, SSX, and Ridge Racer beat Halo and DOA3 any day of the week.

Spoken like a true PS2 zealot who has never even played Halo or DOA3.
I don't see any of those games getting reviews like 9.7.

-Yes, a couple decent but sadly unorginal titles, if you want innovation look elsewhere.

Again, spoken like someone who hasn't played Halo.
But the irony here again is you just listed an entire list of PS2 games are were all sequels! hah!

Actually I will almost certainly own all of them inevitably, I even owned a Sega Master System back in the day. I would wager any ammount of money that even if X-Box doesn't flop, it will be the least successful of the three major systems right now.

The brutal irony is that what you have been doing this entire thread, I am merely trying to implement the age-old "*** for tat" system here.

No sir, I'm stating facts.
You posted a bunch of misleading figures about launch titles, brag that a console 1 year old has more quality games out than a 5 day old one, and you obviously haven't even played Halo or DOA3 yet you judge it accordingly.

Boo.

[Asher]

Hardly, 2 or three good games against half a dozen? As these reviews show, the X-Box didn't even hold water against the Gamecube's launch! It's pure idiocy to imply a system so blatantly in a distant third right now can even compare to a system so firmly entrenched in the leader position.

A good solid launch, many props to nintendo.

Maybe you're just completely blind, so I'll help out. Filtered it out to show only 8.0 games or above (good games, in other words):

Xbox:
NHL Hitz 20-02 8.0
Dead or Alive 3 9.4
Halo 9.7
Project Gotham Racing 8.8
Fuzion Frenzy 8.3
Madden NFL 2002 8.6
NASCAR Thunder 2002 8.5

Gamecube:
Madden NFL 2002 8.7
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader 9.1
Super Monkey Ball 8.3
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 9.1
Wave Race: Blue Storm 9.2

My count is 7 vs. 5. Plus no Gamecube game even reached the 9.7 or 9.4 that Xbox games reached. And one of those Gamecube games is getting a facelift and ported to Xbox shortly anyway.

Tell me, how good are your logic skills?

[monkspider]

700,000-800,000 copies equals one or two?

-Where on earth do you get this nonsensical statisic? link please


Anyone with eyes?
Go look at the screenshots, compare them for yourself.
PS2 can't output to Dolby Digital 5.1 or progressive scan pictures, either.

X-Box's much-hyped graphical horsepower has yet to produce any results that are noticeably better than the other two systems currently. I certainly have eyes and have not noticed anything personally. I grant that it's possible for X-box to have better graphics, if it somehow runs at full capacity, but the current games just don't demonstrate that.



-


Spoken like a true PS2 zealot who has never even played Halo or DOA3.
I don't see any of those games getting reviews like 9.7.

-LOL, actually SSX and Madden *did* get scores comparable to that.
With. of course, modern day PS2 games getting scores even exceeding that.
How typical of a foolish X-Box supporter needing to have to overlook virtually all facts regarding the other systems in order to show his system in a positive light. I can trust that you haven't played many of the recent PS2 titles either, no?




No sir, I'm stating facts.
You posted a bunch of misleading figures about launch titles, brag that a console 1 year old has more quality games out than a 5 day old one, and you obviously haven't even played Halo or DOA3 yet you judge it accordingly.

-These "facts" you boast about in this thread have the nasty habit of usually proving to be ridiculously false. While it's no surprise that the PS2 has better games than the X-Box, with it being out longer. This fact alone should discourage most people from buying the X-Box even if it had a spectacular launch, but with "2 game wonder" launch that grossly pales in comparison to the launches of the other two major systems that should entirely put the matter to rest.

Boo. [/QUOTE]

[monkspider]

With the absolutely overwhelming lead PS2 has in terms of quality games over this chrismas season, over the past year, and into the immediate future, there is absolutely no reason to believe this trend won't continue. PS2 has unprecendented third party support, some solid first party teams, and an ALREADY immense user base.

[Asher]

Originally posted by monkspider
-Where on earth do you get this nonsensical statisic? link please

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2813174-2,00.html

150,000 Xboxes are being produced per week, too.

X-Box's much-hyped graphical horsepower has yet to produce any results that are noticeably better than the other two systems currently. I certainly have eyes and have not noticed anything personally. I grant that it's possible for X-box to have better graphics, if it somehow runs at full capacity, but the current games just don't demonstrate that.

I'll grant you that these games aren't running at full capacity, but you really are blind if you think Halo/DOA3 don't wipe the floor of the PS2. Here's some in-game DOA3 screenshots:

How typical of a foolish X-Box supporter needing to have to overlook virtually all facts regarding the other systems in order to show his system in a positive light. I can trust that you haven't played many of the recent PS2 titles either, no?

Actually, my brother owns a PS2.
So yes, I've played PS2 quite a lot. It's a great system, I never said otherwise. Xbox is just a better box, is all. It's newer, more bells and whistles.
And I'm not the one overlooking the facts (much like you forgot preordering games doesnt count as a launch title, that having 7 games 8.0 or better is greater than 5, etc)

These "facts" you boast about in this thread have the nasty habit of usually proving to be ridiculously false. While it's no surprise that the PS2 has better games than the X-Box, with it being out longer. This fact alone should discourage most people from buying the X-Box even if it had a spectacular launch, but with "2 game wonder" launch that grossly pales in comparison to the launches of the other two major systems that should entirely put the matter to rest.

Prove one of my facts false. Right now.
And I can't believe you just said that people should buy the PS2 over the Xbox because it has more good games out right now.
By your logic, people should never upgrade. There are always much better and more games out on the older systems than the initial launch titles.

[Asher]

Originally posted by monkspider
With the absolutely overwhelming lead PS2 has in terms of quality games over this chrismas season, over the past year, and into the immediate future, there is absolutely no reason to believe this trend won't continue. PS2 has unprecendented third party support, some solid first party teams, and an ALREADY immense user base.

Which is exactly why it will continue being successful!

[monkspider]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Asher

Maybe you're just completely blind, so I'll help out. Filtered it out to show only 8.0 games or above (good games, in other words):

Xbox:
NHL Hitz 20-02 8.0
Dead or Alive 3 9.4
Halo 9.7
Project Gotham Racing 8.8
Fuzion Frenzy 8.3
Madden NFL 2002 8.6
NASCAR Thunder 2002 8.5

Gamecube:
Madden NFL 2002 8.7
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader 9.1
Super Monkey Ball 8.3
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 9.1
Wave Race: Blue Storm 9.2


Tell me, how good are your logic skills?
Obviously, quite good! 80% generally isn't a terribly difficult watermark to reach, and while X Box has got a slight numerical advantage over nintendo at the moment, if you average the scores of those games you posted you will see that Nintendo averages higher! More over, almost all Nintendo games released at launch got a good score, while only a very slim minority of X Box games did well. This should fairly well accentuate the path that the X-Box seems to be headed down. Lots of games perhaps, and lots of marketing muscle, but very few of the games that gamers want to play, and few (if any) quality exclusives. I could play the Halo that you so highly tout here in a little while on my PC if I felt so inclinded, and DOA3, from what I understand, will eventually make it to at least PS2 as well, most likely upgraded (A La the exclusive DOA2 going to PS2 in the form of DOA Hardcore)

[Asher]

Originally posted by monkspider
Obviously, quite good! 80% generally isn't a terribly difficult watermark to reach, and while X Box has got a slight numerical advantage over nintendo at the moment, if you average the scores of those games you posted you will see that Nintendo averages higher!

How many times can you reverse yourself?
First you say Xbox had less good games than Gamecube, now you say that Xbox does have more good games but if you average the good games together it's less?

More over, almost all Nintendo games released at launch got a good score, while only a very slim minority of X Box games did well. This should fairly well accentuate the path that the X-Box seems to be headed down. Lots of games perhaps, and lots of marketing muscle, but very few of the games that gamers want to play, and few (if any) quality exclusives. I could play the Halo that you so highly tout here in a little while on my PC if I felt so inclinded, and DOA3, from what I understand, will eventually make it to at least PS2 as well, most likely upgraded (A La the exclusive DOA2 going to PS2 in the form of DOA Hardcore)

Nope, DOA3 is not going to PS2. It's soley for the Xbox (the developer went as far as saying it's impossible to make the game on any other consoles without castrating the graphics).

While you almost make a good point about the game quality, you forget that most of the PS2's games don't get great reviews. In fact, I see quite a few games below 5.0 on their review index.

Most consoles get tons of bad games. Nintendo's consoles (typically) are harder to develop for. For that reason, only the really "serious" game designers typically make games for them. So you get a much higher good-game rate on average, but your selection is much more limited and the chances of having breakthrough hits are less.

PS2 and Xbox use the same development style: Cheap and easy. You'll get tons of games of varying quality.

[Asher]

Oh, and I do hope you'll figure out how to quote people soon.

And here's info on the DOA3 for PS2: http://www.sonyweb.com/news/0601/022.html

No DOA3 On PS2 or 'Cube



In words sure to anger Sony and Nintendo fans, Itagaki-san explains why DOA3 won't be seen on PS2. Strap down.

Tecmo's Itagaki-san had a lot to say on the Xbox version of Dead or Alive 3, according to a report on The Magic Box. Most critical to our readership is his comments on a possible PS2 or GameCube port of the title.

"It is technically impossible," he said, "to port Dead or Alive 3 to PS2 or GameCube without a noticable degrading of graphic quality. We are looking to create a number one fighting game, and only Xbox is powerful enough to handle the game."

In words that are sure to make Dan Pelfrey, Josh White, and the rest of our XboxWeb crew gloat until they become unbearable, Itagaki added that he estimates Xbox will be able to achieve "up to four times the performance" of other current systems.

He went on to explain that if any new Dead or Alive titles appear on PS2 or GameCube, they will be new installments in the series and not a "down-port" of the DOA3 Xbox engine.

[Mankind]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Actually, on my PC, I use the keyboard.


Please don't burn me as a witch.

joking!

[monkspider]

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2813174-2,00.html

Ha! Nice job using the months-old gamespot article. Of course Microsoft would say they would ship that many months ago, unforunately they had suppy troubles and only shipped 300, 000 heres a links for ya . 700,000 indeed

http://www.vnunet.com/News/1125605

http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s%253D1582%2526a%253D14994,00.asp

and a direct quote "Microsoft has put back its US launch of X-box a week, and analysts believe the company will have only 300,000 consoles ready for its first day of sales instead of the 800,000 it orginally planned."

I bet you didn't think I would call you on that one, would you?
I am beginning to think you respect the truth so much you use it sparingly .



I'll grant you that these games aren't running at full capacity, but you really are blind if you think Halo/DOA3 don't wipe the floor of the PS2. Here's some in-game DOA3 screenshots:

Not bad to be sure, but nothing the PS2 couldnt handle. Have you seen some of the screens of FF X?

And that's just a little pic, imagine it full size!


Actually, my brother owns a PS2.
So yes, I've played PS2 quite a lot. It's a great system, I never said otherwise. Xbox is just a better box, is all. It's newer, more bells and whistles.

That's your opinion, but perhaps you should realize that's not nescarrily the case, and that perhaps, just maybe there are indeed better systems out there. Instead of creating a post to be Microsoft's unpaid mouthpiece.

- No one here is advocating you go out and buy an NES here. X-Box and PS2 are comparable systems. PS2 has better games, period. Shouldn't good games count for at least SOMETHING when comparing systems? By your logic, we would all go out and buy Atari Jaguars.

Prove one of my facts false. Right now.
I believe I have done a decent job of that in the past few posts.

[monkspider]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Asher


How many times can you reverse yourself?
First you say Xbox had less good games than Gamecube, now you say that Xbox does have more good games but if you average the good games together it's less?

I still stand by my statement, I don't consider many of the X-Box games in the lower 80's to be all that great. And there is little doubt of how impressive of Nintendo it was to get so many great titles at launch out. Especially when faced with a huge-multi game X-Box launch. It's really regrettable that so many of those games turned out to be stinkers.


Nope, DOA3 is not going to PS2. It's soley for the Xbox (the developer went as far as saying it's impossible to make the game on any other consoles without castrating the graphics).

-Time will tell, I don't know if anything offical has been annouced, and it's possible that DOA3 was designed with some of the X-Box features in mind.

While you almost make a good point about the game quality, you forget that most of the PS2's games don't get great reviews. In fact, I see quite a few games below 5.0 on their review index.
Most consoles get tons of bad games. Nintendo's consoles (typically) are harder to develop for. For that reason, only the really "serious" game designers typically make games for them. So you get a much higher good-game rate on average, but your selection is much more limited and the chances of having breakthrough hits are less.
PS2 and Xbox use the same development style: Cheap and easy. You'll get tons of games of varying quality.
-Fair enough.
I'm getting tired, thanks for the lively debate. I'm going to sleep for now. I hope you have fun with the X-Box (seriously!)

[DinoDoc]

monkspider

Nintendo's consoles (typically) are harder to develop for. For that reason, only the really "serious" game designers typically make games for them. So you get a much higher good-game rate on average, but your selection is much more limited and the chances of having breakthrough hits are less.
PS2 and Xbox use the same development style: Cheap and easy. You'll get tons of games of varying quality.

Quality over quantity for me any day.

[Asher]

Originally posted by monkspider
Ha! Nice job using the months-old gamespot article. Of course Microsoft would say they would ship that many months ago, unforunately they had suppy troubles and only shipped 300, 000 heres a links for ya . 700,000 indeed

http://www.vnunet.com/News/1125605

http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s%253D1582%2526a%253D14994,00.asp

and a direct quote "Microsoft has put back its US launch of X-box a week, and analysts believe the company will have only 300,000 consoles ready for its first day of sales instead of the 800,000 it orginally planned."

I bet you didn't think I would call you on that one, would you?
I am beginning to think you respect the truth so much you use it sparingly .

Analysts predicted 300,000 units? Where did they get that from?
Flextronics and Microsoft have both come out with an announced that their current capacity is 100,000 units per week, with a maximum capacity of 150,000 units per week once the plants are fully operational.
Analysts (and Microsoft) predict about 1.1M units sold by the end of the holiday season.
And check this out:

A Goldman Sachs survey of U.S. retailers found that 73 percent had already sold out of Microsoft's Xbox and that 47 percent were sold out of Nintendo's GameCube, less than a week after the two systems were released.

Not bad to be sure, but nothing the PS2 couldnt handle. Have you seen some of the screens of FF X?

And that's just a little pic, imagine it full size!

That's actually a picture from a cinematic (not rendered on the PS2 hardware). Nice try, though.

And obviously it is something the PS2 can't handle. Didn't you see the quote from the DOA3 developer?

Here's a real in-game screenshot of FFX. I will admit it's pretty sleek and cool, but it's no DOA3:

That's your opinion, but perhaps you should realize that's not nescarrily the case, and that perhaps, just maybe there are indeed better systems out there. Instead of creating a post to be Microsoft's unpaid mouthpiece.

Actually, it's entirely fact. For every single piece of hardware on the PS2, the Xbox one-ups it.
56K? Xbox has broadband.
Memory cards? Xbox has memory cards AND an 8 gig hard drive.
Regular TV output? Xbox has HDTV.
Regular sound output? Xbox has Dolby Digital 5.1
Limited audio technology? Xbox has 256 channels, 64 of those 3D.
Then there's the pure graphics horsepower under the hood where the Xbox is quite clearly more advanced, plus the 733MHz CPU which is left entirely do to AI/physics alone, so it's overkill. Compare that to the PS2's emotion engine, which is still good, but not as great a config.

No one here is advocating you go out and buy an NES here. X-Box and PS2 are comparable systems. PS2 has better games, period. Shouldn't good games count for at least SOMETHING when comparing systems? By your logic, we would all go out and buy Atari Jaguars.

Did Atari Jaguars have 200+ games in development on the day they were launched?
Did Atari Jaguars court countless developers with familiar development tools they've been using for years?
Xbox has WAY more advantages over the Jaguar and 3DO. It is quite possibly the easiest system to develop for, it's got tons of games coming out, and hardware wise it stomps the competition.

Prove one of my facts false. Right now.
I believe I have done a decent job of that in the past few posts.

Other than the 300,000 thing.
Which I still have serious doubts in believing, the only one who gave that number is some Analyst company.