Stalin monument to be built??

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Pekka
No, the main support lines weren't cut. YOu know, that's where the support that came in, came. Had we cut it, they would have truly all starved.

The only suppply was over Lake Ladoga, by ship when there was no ice, and by truck when the ice was thick enough. But Leningrad starved, and Finalnd and Germany cut it off. Cut acting like I'm saying you're evil, evil people. It was a nasty war, and even the good guys (which you weren't) did evil, evil things.

Here's another clue. Stop attacking, and we don't have to defend ourselves in there. We didn't apologize for existing then, and we are not about to start now. So either accept the fact, or don't.

If telling the truth is attacking you, I guess you people feel really guilty about being Nazi allies. That's okay. I would too.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Pekka
If you hadn't attacked, we wouldn't have been in arms in there.

I never attacked you. I'm an American, not a Soviet.

[laurentius]

I really hoped you werent this ignorant.

[Pekka]

truth is attacking what? No, I meant if you hadn't attacked, we wouldn't have been there in the west in the first place. You can't have it all, take the cake and eat it all you know.

It was the imperialistic plans that caught up with Stalin. He didn't plan this one, he planned to have Finland, period. He planned not on fighting Germany. But oops, those plans didn't really work, and that's why the situationw as like it was. Stalin started the game for us. It was his fault own fault and no one elses. Had he being a reasonable person, we would have never battled in the first place.

The whole end situation derivates from the first action. Stalin's action. Still you find time to say it's not entirely his fault. Now how is that?

like Tass suggests from time to time, we should have surrendered and died, because lot of people in SU got killed. In the case of me or someone else, it's got to be someone else. If that someone else comes first, hey, it's not really that difficult to think about. Somehow neither of you agree with me.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by laurentius
You know Finns never tried to attack the lifeline even if we could have. Doesnt that tell you something?

What are you trying to prove? Were your armies, with the Germans', surrounding Leningrad? Yes.

As a result, did 670,000 Leningraders starve to death? Yes.

It's really, freakin' simple.

If you people didn't feel so guilty about being allies of the worst people in history, maybe you could admit you actually killed people in a war.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Pekka
truth is attacking what? No, I meant if you hadn't attacked, we wouldn't have been there in the west in the first place.

First, I'm an American, not a Soviet. We never attacked you.

Second, I'm a Trotskyist, not a Stalinist. We granted Finland independence. We never attacked you.

Third, it's irrelevent.

The whole end situation derivates from the first action. Stalin's action. Still you find time to say it's not entirely his fault. Now how is that?

Where did I write that, Pekka?

[laurentius]

If USSR would have attacked USa before it entered the war wich side would it have chosen?

[Pekka]

I think no one has ever said we didn't kill people in the war.

But it would be a start if you would admit, that it was a forced situation, that Stalin brought upon us. There were no options to anything else than what happened. Option to die is not exactly an option, like Tass suggests. I bet his country will be a nice place.

An example. A man kills 3 people point blank in street, cop comes in, pulls his gun out, and they are at a staredown. The killer aims his gun to the cop, the cop shoots him. Should the cop have let him shoot him, or did he do the right thing, even if it meant killing the killer?

[laurentius]

Why the obsession with over simplifying things Che?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Pekka
But it would be a start if you would admit, that it was a forced situation, that Stalin brought upon us.

Well, maybe you should go back and read where in two or three different posts, I said that Finland had a valid cause for war. So maybe you should read the whole thread before attacking me for things I may or may not have done.

[Pekka]

I know what you said. It's a different thing, VALID reason and Stalin playing the game and giving us the cards to play with.

You make it sound like we had options, lots of good ones.

[Last Conformist]

That's slightly rich from someone who's country allied with the SU.

[Pekka]

OK let's put it this way. If you were so afraid of Germans in our borders. Why didn't you pressure attacks on them? Why they got a summer vacation? Explain that one.

ALSO if you would know ANYTHING about the subject, the time from 41 to 44 was mostly inactive. We dug in, you dug in, and then we watched each other. Like said, don't want to be there fighting, then go on home and stop coming to other people's home uninvited.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by laurentius
Why the obsession in oversimplifying things Che?

Because it's a simple fact. Either you did help starve Leningrad or you didn't. Everything else in a discussion as to whether or not that fact is true or false. You want to either deny the fact or bring in all these other facts which either aren't germain to the discussion or try to mitigate your responsibility.

The discussion wasn't whether or not the Finland had a right to attack the USSR. It wasn't whether or not the Soviets were justified in attack the Finland. It wasn't whether or not Finland attacked Leningrad. You tried to confuse the issue, make the discussion into more than it was, which was a simple statement that Finland and Germany helped starve Leningrad.

[General Ludd]

I didn't realise that finns where so indoctrinated by their country. It's almost as bad as americans.