US special forces 'inside Iran'

[notyoueither]

Ted Striker is struck once too many times upside the head, me feels.

Real people do not speak of themselves in the third person all of the time.

Thanks.

[notyoueither]

Are you a bot, Ted?

[Ted Striker]

Do you have like photographs of me walking outside of my apartment and going to work, etc, hanging up on your wall?

Did you make a collage out of them?

[notyoueither]

I don't need to, Ted. You make your life on this forum. All I need to know about you can be found here.

I'm putting $5 on bot.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
You're assuming the Yanks give a **** what the French feel since 1960. They don't. The Republic proved it's worth in the 60's, and that was not much.

You're assuming diplomacy behaves like your bitter self. It doesn't. Diplomacy is about having other people do what is in your interests. It's a game of realpolitics where feelings are short lived.

Germany might smart a little, bit it isn't going to disuade the Yanks from anything they want to do.

Duh. Of course. The question is not whether the US will listen to others. The question is whether the US believes it has the resources necessary to do what it wants - indirectly, the question is whether the US can get away with obtaining foreign support while still doing what it wants.

As far as needing the support of a country that never lent support, no matter what, and a country that is constitutionally bound not to lend support.

You mean like the French and German peacekeepers in Kosovo and Afghanistan? Yeah, sure, they don't exist at all.

The French and German militaries are among the best suited in the world for peacekeeping operation, along with the Brits (and maybe the Japanese, but I don't know about their peacekeeping experiences). Getting France and Germany to support the US policy could lead to a far easier (for the US point of viey) occupation next time the US invades, or next time it wages a war by proxy-civil-war. This in turn would help the US not to overstretch its military capabilities, and to move on with some other war.

You have a serioulsy deluded impression of the place of France, Germany, and the EU in the world.

I am not deluded about their role in the world. The EU is nothing in diplomatic and military matters. France and Germany are only medium (along with Britain, Japan, Russia, India etc.) in a field where the US is gigantic.

Yet, these countries are useful tools for the US. The US isn't strong enough to do everything alone: Iraq -an expected walk in the park- has completely crippled the US from making any massive military intervention in the past two years.

The US is spending far too much time and resources in Iraq for a peacekeeping job that could be done just as well (and maybe better) by the smaller players. And in the meatime, Iran is developing its nukes as fast as it can.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I don't need to, Ted. You make your life on this forum. All I need to know about you can be found here.

I'm putting $5 on bot.

I would say you make your life out of obsessing about me.



Considering your last 5 posts in a row have been about me and not the topic, I would say take that $5 and buy yourself a Playgirl magazine instead.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Spiffor

You're assuming diplomacy behaves like your bitter self. It doesn't. Diplomacy is about having other people do what is in your interests. It's a game of realpolitics where feelings are short lived.

Germany might smart a little, bit it isn't going to disuade the Yanks from anything they want to do.

Duh. Of course. The question is not whether the US will listen to others. The question is whether the US believes it has the resources necessary to do what it wants - indirectly, the question is whether the US can get away with obtaining foreign support while still doing what it wants.

As far as needing the support of a country that never lent support, no matter what, and a country that is constitutionally bound not to lend support.

You mean like the French and German peacekeepers in Kosovo and Afghanistan? Yeah, sure, they don't exist at all.

The French and German militaries are among the best suited in the world for peacekeeping operation, along with the Brits (and maybe the Japanese, but I don't know about their peacekeeping experiences). Getting France and Germany to support the US policy could lead to a far easier (for the US point of viey) occupation next time the US invades, or next time it wages a war by proxy-civil-war. This in turn would help the US not to overstretch its military capabilities, and to move on with some other war.

You have a serioulsy deluded impression of the place of France, Germany, and the EU in the world.

I am not deluded about their role in the world. The EU is nothing in diplomatic and military matters. France and Germany are only medium (along with Britain, Japan, Russia, India etc.) in a field where the US is gigantic.

Yet, these countries are useful tools for the US. The US isn't strong enough to do everything alone: Iraq -an expected walk in the park- has completely crippled the US from making any massive military intervention in the past two years.

The US is spending far too much time and resources in Iraq for a peacekeeping job that could be done just as well (and maybe better) by the smaller players. And in the meatime, Iran is developing its nukes as fast as it can.

Though I think you are being too modest or gracious in underestimating the effect that France and Germany can have on world opinion and the consequences of that world opinion.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Spiffor

You're assuming diplomacy behaves like your bitter self. It doesn't. Diplomacy is about having other people do what is in your interests. It's a game of realpolitics where feelings are short lived.

Germany might smart a little, bit it isn't going to disuade the Yanks from anything they want to do.

Duh. Of course. The question is not whether the US will listen to others. The question is whether the US believes it has the resources necessary to do what it wants - indirectly, the question is whether the US can get away with obtaining foreign support while still doing what it wants.

As far as needing the support of a country that never lent support, no matter what, and a country that is constitutionally bound not to lend support.

You mean like the French and German peacekeepers in Kosovo and Afghanistan? Yeah, sure, they don't exist at all.

The French and German militaries are among the best suited in the world for peacekeeping operation, along with the Brits (and maybe the Japanese, but I don't know about their peacekeeping experiences). Getting France and Germany to support the US policy could lead to a far easier (for the US point of viey) occupation next time the US invades, or next time it wages a war by proxy-civil-war. This in turn would help the US not to overstretch its military capabilities, and to move on with some other war.

You have a serioulsy deluded impression of the place of France, Germany, and the EU in the world.

I am not deluded about their role in the world. The EU is nothing in diplomatic and military matters. France and Germany are only medium (along with Britain, Japan, Russia, India etc.) in a field where the US is gigantic.

Yet, these countries are useful tools for the US. The US isn't strong enough to do everything alone: Iraq -an expected walk in the park- has completely crippled the US from making any massive military intervention in the past two years.

The US is spending far too much time and resources in Iraq for a peacekeeping job that could be done just as well (and maybe better) by the smaller players. And in the meatime, Iran is developing its nukes as fast as it can.

Are you listening to yourself?

Diplomacy is also about the possible. French support for the US is not really possible, is it?

Getting France and Germany to support the US policy could lead to a far easier (for the US point of viey) occupation next time the US invades, or next time it wages a war by proxy-civil-war.

Since when would France ever support the US in any venture? You've been undermining the US ever since the start of the Cold War!

The US has had the resources to win a Cold War with far greater powers than the piss-ant French state ever dreamt of rearing itself up on its hind legs as. Your leaders should remember that, the next time they decide to cash in chips from UN programs to stand in the way of what a real country is going to do, no matter how hard you bleat as sheep.

As far as Iranian nukes go, I doubt their theatre weapons could reach Seattle. Maybe they could reach Ankara, Athens, or Rome. Whose problem is that? Do you want any help with it?

I suggest you ask nicely. Your 'diplomacy' has pissed a few people this side of the pond off no end.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Though I think you are being too modest or gracious in underestimating the effect that France and Germany can have on world opinion and the consequences of that world opinion.

Well, actually I am close to the so-called "realist" understanding of international relations, where rational self-interest is the primary factor of diplomatic behaviour, and where ideas are are only secondary.

The world's public opinion didn't reject the war because of an efficient PR campaign by France and Germany. It rejected the war because the most people in the world oppose American imperialism, which is what the war looked like to them (I agree with that POV too). The French vocal opposition to the war might have given the world's public opinion a focus (especially European public opinions in countries whose government sided with Bush), but little else.

And the public opinion outside of the US mattered zilch in Bush's decision. The only people Bush yould listen to are his advisors and the ones whose opposition could be harmful to him, like his own electorate, or the Brits. Fortunately, it proved easy to manipulate the electorate. It was more difficult to flatter Blair enough, by unergoing the whole UN mess. But that's the kind of lengths you need, if you want to keep your only significant ally.

[notyoueither]

Incidently, France never gave assistance, and neither did Germany, but for different reasons. France was useless by choice. Nobody held Germany's constitution against them.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk


Ted, thse guys aren't there to write traffic tickets.

"You want me to give him a ticket sir?"

"I want you to give him a ticket with extreme prejudice!"

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ted Striker





Though I think you are being too modest or gracious in underestimating the effect that France and Germany can have on world opinion and the consequences of that world opinion.

$5 on French **** sucking bot.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Diplomacy is also about the possible. French support for the US is not really possible, is it?

Since when would France ever support the US in any venture?

On which side were we during the Kosovo war, despite the US barging in our attempts of diplomacy and ruining them? On which side exactly are the French peacekeeping troops currently stationed in Kosovo?

As far as Iranian nukes go, I doubt their theatre weapons could reach Seattle. Maybe they could reach Ankara, Athens, or Rome. Whose problem is that? Do you want any help with it?

It appears to be the US' problem, considering how much talk about striking Iran I hear from your side of the pond, in comparison to mine.

In case you haven't noticed, the thread we're currently spamming is about the US trying to undermine the Iranian nuclear program. But I guess they only do that to be nice to us, don't they?

I suggest you ask nicely. Your 'diplomacy' has pissed a few people this side of the pond off no end.

Yep, you, and some other ordinary citizens like you who couldn't get over their bitterness in 40 years. Maybe even some diplomats. However, those diplomats know when to keep their emotions in check, as they know when to attempt milking a country of what it can offer.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Incidently, France never gave assistance, and neither did Germany, but for different reasons. France was useless by choice. Nobody held Germany's constitution against them.

If you repeat it often enough, it might even become true

[notyoueither]

Oh, Christ, give up Kosovo, already, will ya? That was yet another Euro mess that the Euros begged the Yanks to get into.

The French were involved? Big Deal! It was your front yard, after all. Do you want a medal?

I find it difficult to believe that a cynic such as yourself does not recognise that others might place premiums on past actions. You seem to think France will skate? Oh, the folly.