United States of Europe vs. Stalinland: Ukraine, pt. II

[The Vagabond]

Giancarlo, your example shows that brainwashing in the 'free' world has reached the levels unthinkable even in the Soviet Union.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Giancarlo, your example shows that brainwashing in the 'free' world has reached the levels unthinkable even in the Soviet Union.

I was just joking about the first reason. But the other two are very valid. How does Putin handle the free press? He just sends soldiers in to take over!

[The Vagabond]

Are you serious in your last statement?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Are serious in your last statement?

We very clearly see how Putin likes the free press. I forget the name of the station he took over.

[Serb]

Brainwashed

[The Vagabond]

Printed press is still free. TV has just been curbed back to American standards.

[Serb]

Exactly

[Pekka]

printed press is still free? Is that like a .. beacon of the freedom then? If so, how about getting to barrigades?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Partition Ukraine!

It will collapse anyway. Modern Ukraine is the artifitial creation. She never had such borders that she has now. It is too damn polarized, in fact there live two different peoples, instead of one, united Ukranian people. It's doomed to collapse if your western, democratic candidate Yushenko won't become a western, democratic dictator to prevent the split of the country by force.

[Spiffor]

I heard Yanukovych will oppose the results to the courts. He claims there are systematic frauds.

I think it's a good idea. If anything, the courts showed their independence as they ordered these new elections. I think THEY are the best ones to decide whether the elections were rigged, or not.

I utterly distrust the OESC observers (not them individually, but the political interpretation said by the OESC), and the EU's or US's stances are worth no more than Russia's. All of these stances can go to the trash where they belong.

For the matter, I think both candidates are petty suckers which are bad for Ukraine. But the pro-Yushchenko propaganda sickened me into leaning toward Yanukovych... who IMHO wants to be a Putin-like but is way too incompetent for that effect.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by GePap
Ok, so which is better?

Stalinland
Kruschevburg
Brezhneville
Chernenko Park
Andropov Town

Pina Coladaburg
Kruschevia
Brezhneville /2
Chernenko Park
Stalinland
Andropov Town :steve earle:

[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka
printed press is still free? Is that like a .. beacon of the freedom then? If so, how about getting to barrigades?

I bet, Russian media in some cases has way more freedom than the western media, due to lack of laws and regulations. Whole those stories about Russian media being not free are no more than BS and part of the anti-Russian and anti-Putin campaign carried out by the West through its propaganda machines.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


There is a related Russian saying: However many times you repeat the word 'sugar', you won't get sweet taste in the mouth.

Most Americans like Russians - even during the cold war, I think most of us liked Russians as people. I dont think the Euros feel worse towards you.

Plenty of Americans, BTW opposed bringing in the Visograd states to NATO, DESPITE a sense of historic obligation to them.

I see no real reason to bring Ukraine into NATO. The more you guys go on the way you do about them,however, the more it seems like NOT bringing them into NATO is leaving them out in the cold.

You will notice that there are not NATO bases in the Baltics. The discussion of NATO bases in eastern europe has focused on small bases, that would be no threat to Russia, or to its sphere of influence.

Your paranoia MAY be sufficient to be self-fullfilling, but I doubt it. We have too many interests in common. And, sorry to say this, you arent that threatening to us anymore. We simply dont think about you as much as you do about us.

[Pekka]

Right

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Serb

It will collapse anyway. Modern Ukraine is the artifitial creation. She never had such borders that she has now. It is too damn polarized, in fact there live two different peoples, instead of one, united Ukranian people. It's doomed to collapse if your western, democratic candidate Yushenko won't become a western, democratic dictator to prevent the split of the country by force.

1. the partitioning of even artificial creations can be a horrible process. People are intermarried, there are mixed areas, esp capitals, etc. If there is any possibility of keeping Ukraine together, that should be attempted.

2. IIUC Yuschenko did better this time around in the east, esp in Kharkiv.