Iranian propoganda - "For you Palestine - Zahra's blue eyes"

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
I think that this incessant, extreme, anti-Jew propaganda by the Iranians and others in the ME cannot but have a very corrosive effect on their people.

This is very true

I feel they would willing support mass slaughter of Jews and would be unwilling to tolerate the continued existence of the State of Israel.

This is very likely as well.

But even if the Iranians are successfully manipulated into becoming diehard antisemites (which is certainly the aim of the soap we're discussing), it doesn't mean that they're inherently more vicious than other people. That some others are truly superior, while the Iranians are truly barbaric...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor
), it doesn't mean that they're inherently more vicious than other people. That some others are truly superior, while the Iranians are truly barbaric...

On the contrary, when these people are freed, we may be pleasantly surprised.

Faster, please!

[germanos]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Probably not the worst excesses of the holocaust, considering that Goebbels refused to show the mass-killings of Jews in his propaganda. he feared a reaction from the Germans, should such a show happen.

OMFG!!! No mass-killings !!!!!
One by one and in an orderly manner, verdamt noch mal. Jedem das Seine!!!

[Ned]

That excerpt about Khatami does show that the people of Iran know the difference between democracy and theocracy. Also the women of Iran know they had more rights under the Shah than they do under the Ayatollahs.

The spirit shown by the students illustrates why it might be difficult for Iraq to turn into a carbon copy of Iran.

[Kuciwalker]

I doubt most people wathcing the soaps you mention believe in magic or witches of that kind, while, well, we know Jews exist

Superstition everyone knows that the Jews are a Zionist conspiracy

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Azazel

The vast majority of Europeans and Germans had no direct participation in the Holocaust. What they did was say nothing and look the other way while it was going on.

actually, most germans knew, and were for the holocaust, at the time.

Actually, that is still a big discussion amongst historians, mainly because it is not easy to find sources which allow you to "measure" exactly the degree of support the Nazis had. Often the internal SD reports are used, but they also don't show exact numbers. AFAIK most historians agree though that Hitler himself had very high support even late in the war, but this has more to do with the image he gave himself, and with the irrational, pseudo-religious beliefs people related to him. Sure is that the Nazis could count on existing anti-Jewish feelings in Germany, but as said, those things are very difficult to quantify.

[Az]

Actually, that is still a big discussion amongst historians, mainly because it is not easy to find sources which allow you to "measure" exactly the degree of support the Nazis had. Often the internal SD reports are used, but they also don't show exact numbers. AFAIK most historians agree though that Hitler himself had very high support even late in the war, but this has more to do with the image he gave himself, and with the irrational, pseudo-religious beliefs people related to him. Sure is that the Nazis could count on existing anti-Jewish feelings in Germany, but as said, those things are very difficult to quantify.

EDIT: maybe distasteful.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned
That excerpt about Khatami does show that the people of Iran know the difference between democracy and theocracy. Also the women of Iran know they had more rights under the Shah than they do under the Ayatollahs.

Different rights- today in Iran they can vote for the president, but can't show their hair. Under the Shah they could show their hair,but not vote for president.

The spirit shown by the students illustrates why it might be difficult for Iraq to turn into a carbon copy of Iran.

The spirit shown by the students shows why this concern about Iranian state television is a bit (very) overdone.

That being said, unfortunately right now there is no magnetic figure around which a revolution can gather agains the clerical regime. Khomeini was such a figure against the Shah, but who is left in exile? The heir to the Shah? What has he done lately, but live in luxury?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned
GePap, after a time, didn't most people in Europe understand what was happening to the Jews who were rounded up? But even so, in almost every corner of Europe, the local population was more than eager to round up and expel the Jews.

Depended on the area, certainly in many parts of the Pale region, locals did actively participate in the expulsion of Jews- less so in more cosmopolitan societies, like in France, Italy, the Netherlands and so forth. To say they were more than eager thought is wrong, since if that were true, the prenazi regimes would have done it anyways, NO? That is the grand and total flaw in your arguement- if Europeans were so damned anti-semitic before the war, then the expulsion or extermination of the Jews would not have needed German conquest to be a precondition.

I think that this incessant, extreme, anti-Jew propaganda by the Iranians and others in the ME cannot but have a very corrosive effect on their people. I feel they would willing support mass slaughter of Jews and would be unwilling to tolerate the continued existence of the State of Israel.

I am sure there is much latent anti-semitism in all the ME, but regimes make policy, not latent feelings among the masses. Arab and Iranian leaders may be able to count on using anti-semitism as an excuse to act in the future, but just as the majority of Europeans did not participate in the Holocaust, the majority of people in the ME would not participate in a fictional second go.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


The spirit shown by the students shows why this concern about Iranian state television is a bit (very) overdone.

That being said, unfortunately right now there is no magnetic figure around which a revolution can gather agains the clerical regime. Khomeini was such a figure against the Shah, but who is left in exile? The heir to the Shah? What has he done lately, but live in luxury?

I dont think anyone fears the students at Teheran U will buy the antisemitic crap. I suppose some of the elements the regime will try to rally against them might, though.

Magnetic figures - I can think of two. That woman who won the Noble Prize, Erbadi, I think? And theres at least one grand ayatollah (taderresi, or something like that) who thinks that its time for the mullahs to step back from politics. IE a view of Shiism closer to that espoused by Gr. Ayat. Sistani in Najaf. Im sure there are other figures, though.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


Depended on the area, certainly in many parts of the Pale region, locals did actively participate in the expulsion of Jews- less so in more cosmopolitan societies, like in France, Italy, the Netherlands and so forth. To say they were more than eager thought is wrong, since if that were true, the prenazi regimes would have done it anyways, NO? That is the grand and total flaw in your arguement- if Europeans were so damned anti-semitic before the war, then the expulsion or extermination of the Jews would not have needed German conquest to be a precondition.

The Poles were not so much less antisemitic (socialists aside) as more humane, and I suppose one could say, more aristocratic, more honourable. Physical violence, at least with state authorization, was out of the question. Instead there were economic boycotts with the support of the govt, combined with exclusions from universities, certain professions (IIRC) etc - that had reduced Polish Jewry to extreme poverty (even by eastern European depression standards) in the late '30s. Thats why there was a massive outflow of Polish Jews - "The Jews without a future" throughout the '30s, even before Hitler conquered.

IIRC, it was similar in Rumania.

In Hungary it was more moderate. There were quotas on Jews in certain professions, but Jews could still make a living in private business. Something similar in the Baltics, IIRC, though it wasnt the same for all.

And throughout, propaganda, and in the case of Hungary, direct pressure, from Germany played a role.

[lord of the mark]

via Rantburg.



'Saudi Government Daily Accuses U.S. Army of Harvesting Organs of Iraqis:

In the Saudi government daily Al-Watan, an article from Brussels written by Fakhriya Ahmad charges that, based on alleged secret European military reports, the U.S. military in Iraq is harvesting and selling human organs. The following day, the story was also published in the Iranian daily Jomhouri-ye Islami, as well as the Syrian daily Teshreen. The following are excerpts from the article:

“Secret European military intelligence reports indicate the transformation of the American humanitarian mission in Iraq into a profitable trade in the American markets through the practice of American physicians extracting human organs from the dead and wounded, before they are put to death, for sale to medical centers in America. A secret team of American physicians follow the troops during their attacks on Iraqi armed men to ensure quick [medical] operations for extracting some organs and transferring them to private operations rooms before they are transferred to America for sale.'

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


The Poles were not so much less antisemitic (socialists aside) as more humane, and I suppose one could say, more aristocratic, more honourable. Physical violence, at least with state authorization, was out of the question. Instead there were economic boycotts with the support of the govt, combined with exclusions from universities, certain professions (IIRC) etc - that had reduced Polish Jewry to extreme poverty (even by eastern European depression standards) in the late '30s. Thats why there was a massive outflow of Polish Jews - "The Jews without a future" throughout the '30s, even before Hitler conquered.

IIRC, it was similar in Rumania.

In Hungary it was more moderate. There were quotas on Jews in certain professions, but Jews could still make a living in private business. Something similar in the Baltics, IIRC, though it wasnt the same for all.

And throughout, propaganda, and in the case of Hungary, direct pressure, from Germany played a role.

None of these regimes, faincg inherent and old anti-semitism, turned to pogroms and murderousness.

And in states in the West Jews faced every day anti-semitism, but without much state sponsorship, again going against Ned's dystopian view of Europe.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
What, didn't you know that Israeli Coke has palestinian kids' blood in it?

And the juice from a thousand cute little crushed kitten eyes.

(You know the said thing is many people in the middle east would believe this crap because they've been feed a steady diet of lies and anti-semitism their whole lives.)

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Pax
Especially since, peaceful Isreal has carried out acts of war on Iranian soil.

huh?

care to enrich my history knowledge?

The first thing Isreal could do to help Arabs/Muslims/Persian and etc from thinking that they eat baby Persian hearts is stop acts of aggression.

Its one thing to think Israelis are agressive / warlike / what ever.

Its a whole other thing to think Israelis steal baby palestinian hearts.

The first thing Israel could do to stop this image, and to help the persian people, is probably to bomb the Iranian government into submission.