Iranian propoganda - "For you Palestine - Zahra's blue eyes"

[BeBMan]

Ha! It painted all Siths as evil!

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Arrian
"Higher caliber?" No, not really. They're crap.

However, LotM said it well when he said:



-Arrian

Try reading what I posted again, the parts that you didn't (mis)quote.

I'm not particularily concerned with the percieved message of these shows - I'm just pointing out this show is of the same breed as western soaps. And I don't ever see people going around worrying about the "messages" that soaps are spreading. Which is, of course, because these shows are just stupid and far fetched -anyone who believes the crap they talk about is a superstisious moron who probably thinks that way already.

If we're woried about this speading hatred of the jews, why aren't we worried about Passions spreading paranoia of the occult and superstitious beliefs?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by General Ludd


Yes, they just steal people's souls and turn them against their friends, while ploting to destroy all 'goodness' in society.



I'm not particularily concerned with the percieved message of these shows - I'm just pointing out this show is of the same breed as western soaps. And I don't ever see people going around worrying about the "messages" that soaps are spreading. Which is, of course, because these shows are just stupid and far fetched -anyone who believes the crap they talk about is a superstisious moron who probably thinks that way already.

I AM concerned with our societys emphasis on conformity, and difficulty accepting and nurturing different personality styles. Especially of people with ADD, NVLD, Social Anxiety Disorder, Aspergers, etc. Thats a big issue for us to address. I had no idea, however that there were demonized characters on soaps who were at all identfiable with members of these groups, the way the figures on Iranian TV are recognizable as Israelis AND as Jews. I am QUITE concerned - not sure that it could get me to watch the damned shows to check though (Wheres the vomit smiley when you need it?)

[Ned]

Siro, this propaganda is so off-the-wall as to be almost laughable. How do the people of Iran take this show? Is it viewed as a comedy? It has to be! Otherwise, the cruelty and viciousness of the Iranians is almost beyond belief.

[Arrian]

If we're woried about this speading hatred of the jews, why aren't we worried about Passions spreading paranoia of the occult and superstitious beliefs?

Because when it's "official" state propoganda, it's more worrisome than the soaps you mentioned (I will admit I wasn't familiar with soaps-for-Jesus style stuff such as you posted). Not that the soaps aren't worrisome at all, mind you. There ARE people who are supersitious morons and will believe that ****. Less than would believe government-sponsored propoganda, perhaps, but still kinda scary.

-Arrian

[GePap]

Originally posted by General Ludd

If we're woried about this speading hatred of the jews, why aren't we worried about Passions spreading paranoia of the occult and superstitious beliefs?

Because there is a massive difference between spreading hatred of a people and a state, and carrying out a very old western narrative running since Constantine turned Christian about the dangers of Paganism and the occult (which by definition is something hidden and dark and sinister, hence it being occult).

Man, I said it before, you have issues to think these things the same.

[lord of the mark]

i may have misinterpreted - Ludd wasnt concerned so much about demonizing "odd" personalities, but with Christian demonizing of wiccans, pagans, etc I take it? A concern, granted. We have however generally succeeded in stopping attempts to ban Harry Potter. Indeed it is encouraged in schools where I live.


Im really looking forward to the 6th book.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Siro, this propaganda is so off-the-wall as to be almost laughable. How do the people of Iran take this show? Is it viewed as a comedy? It has to be! Otherwise, the cruelty and viciousness of the Iranians is almost beyond belief.

Err, what do Cruelty and Viciousness have to do with believing the lies of the State TV? I can understand it could show a gullibility, or a success by the Iranian State with its brainwashing machine, but how does it make Iranians "cruel" and "vicious".

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by GePap


Because there is a massive difference between spreading hatred of a people and a state, and carrying out a very old western narrative running since Constantine turned Christian about the dangers of Paganism and the occult (which by definition is something hidden and dark and sinister, hence it being occult).

Man, I said it before, you have issues to think these things the same.

Let's see... one (supposedly) spreads hatred of zionists, the other (supposedly) spreads hatred of 'weirdos' 'strange people' and that senile old woman who lives down the street.

And are you suggesting that pagans are not people?

Because when it's "official" state propoganda, it's more worrisome than the soaps you mentioned (I will admit I wasn't familiar with soaps-for-Jesus style stuff such as you posted).

Well, I'll agree that it would be worrisome to see a government do that (although that has little bearing on the show itself - which is what I have focused on). But has it been established that this is payed for and sponsored by the iranian government specifically for it's message and use as propaganda - or is it the equivelant of the government sponsoring "canadian content"?

I would find it very worrying if the iranian government thought of this as effective and useful propaganda, and only slightly less worrisome they just thought of it as quality television.

may have misinterpreted - Ludd wasnt concerned so much about demonizing "odd" personalities, but with Christian demonizing of wiccans, pagans, etc I take it?

Well, it often goes hand in hand. Wiccans, pagans (as they are percieved by the christians who would hold this view), the socially awkward, and eccentrics, can all be used interchangebly as subtexts for one another, and often are.

It's really just anything 'strange' or 'suspicious' at all.

[GePap]

Originally posted by General Ludd




Let's see... one (supposedly) spreads hatred of zionists, the other (supposedly) spreads hatred of 'weirdos' 'strange people' and that senile old woman who lives down the street.

And are you suggesting that pagans are not people?

1. The Iranian show DOES attempt to spread hatred-that the point.

2. The comparison is absurd- distrust of the OTHER is ingrained into humanity. All societies warn its members about non-members, its an ancient tale.

Where the difference is most pronounced is in the fact that one show bases its OTHERS as being supernatural- what they do being a violation of nature. The Iranian show does NOT use supernatural elements- after all, kidnappings or organ harvesting is in no way unrealistic (China certainly farms its prisoner population for organs). So in order to create individual so vile as be be hated, they have to be explained as being supernaturally evil, while the Iranian shows shows "regular Jews" as being naturally evil.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Err, what do Cruelty and Viciousness have to do with believing the lies of the State TV? I can understand it could show a gullibility, or a success by the Iranian State with its brainwashing machine, but how does it make Iranians "cruel" and "vicious".

Well, let's now think of what happened in the Third Reich 70 years ago. If the German people viewed the anti-Jew propaganda spewed by the government as laughable, they would not have been willing participants in what went on later during the war. But they did believe it, it seems. And they acted with viciousness and cruelty.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned


Well, let's now think of what happened in the Third Reich 70 years ago. If the German people viewed the anti-Jew propaganda spewed by the government as laughable, they would not have been willing participants in what went on later during the war. But they did believe it, it seems. And they acted with viciousness and cruelty.

You could view propaganda as laughable while at the same time deciding you did not care if ypour regime did something out of sight, out of mind, which was the reaction of most Germans, and most Europeans, to what occured to the Jews.

Two different things, Participating in evil, and facilitating evil.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by GePap


1. The Iranian show DOES attempt to spread hatred-that the point.

2. The comparison is absurd- distrust of the OTHER is ingrained into humanity. All societies warn its members about non-members, its an ancient tale.

And in Iran the 'other' is a zionist.

Where the difference is most pronounced is in the fact that one show bases its OTHERS as being supernatural- what they do being a violation of nature. The Iranian show does NOT use supernatural elements- after all, kidnappings or organ harvesting is in no way unrealistic.

in Zahra's Blue eyes, zionists are shown as believing that they are a gifted race who have been given the medical knowledge of transplantation and cloning (which is considered against nature) by god so that they can rebuild themselves.

And in what way are eye transplants realistic?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by General Ludd



Well, it often goes hand in hand. Wiccans, pagans (as they are percieved by the christians who would hold this view), the socially awkward, and eccentrics, can all be used interchangebly as subtexts for one another, and often are.

It's really just anything 'strange' or 'suspicious' at all.

well suspicious people, by defintion, are worthy of suspicion. Not necessarily irrational, and certainly, as GePap says, a basic part of human nature. Its utopian to expect pop culture not to have bad guys, and not to overemphasize "suspicious" people as bad guys. Its NOT utopian to expect media to not demonize Jews, Wiccans, or folks with say, Aspergers.

As for the latter, the distinction is relevant - in the US (and I hope Canada and Germany) there IS a real societal effort, imperfect though it is, to HELP those with ADD, Social Anxiety, Aspergers, etc - including recognizing the positive aspects of those conditions (I recommend "Thinking in Pictures" wrt to Aspergers - I really doubt an equally positive picture of Zionism could be published in Iran) and certainly theres no formal attempt by ANY organized body to demonize these groups.

With Wiccans, as seen by fundy christians Im not so sure. Of course we do get to the issues of occult groups being "occult" and thus hidden by definition. Ive certainly seen dramatic changes in the way Wiccans and Pagans are viewed in US society since my childhood. Has there been any equivalent evolution in the position of Jews and Zionists in Iran?

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap


You could view propaganda as laughable while at the same time deciding you did not care if ypour regime did something out of sight, out of mind, which was the reaction of most Germans, and most Europeans, to what occured to the Jews.

Two different things, Participating in evil, and facilitating evil.

GePap, now you are believing European revisionism about what went on before 1945.