Why was the classical West so far behind in religious/spiritual development?

[Ben Kenobi]

I would claim that half the problems china and india have are because of western imperialism. (particularily the problem of not being "up to par") It wasn't long ago that both where a subject of the British empire.

I suppose building railroads, and stopping most of the famines is really going to set Indians back.

I can't speak for some of the other colonialists, such as the Dutch, French or Belgians, but I think the Brits did a pretty bang up job in their former colonies.

Can't tar them all with the same brush.

[St Leo]

Because the West did not have massive systems of slavery and oppression until a fair bit later than the East. Religion is just a naturally evolving chain that locks down the human spirit into willing drudgery.

[St Leo]

For a right-wing LOLbertarian perspective, check out ESR's Islamofascism and the Rage of Augustine.

[Az]

But I suppose that is the difference. The west focused on imperialism while the east focused on spirituality.

[Kontiki]

I think the Chinese pretty much did themselves in with regards to large-scale technological progress well before western imperialism became an issue. And Islamic society had to deal with the Mongols setting them back in a huge way.

[Giant_Squid]

Joseph Campbell made the point that when we look at the religion of a foreign civilization, we're looking at it from a scholarly perspective and not from the down-to-earth perspective we see our own from. So while the same Westerners who are jaded about Christianity and see it as guilt-trips, fables, and threats can see Far Eastern philosophies like Zen as a beautiful spiritual system, Japanese in the 17th century before Christianity was banned couldn't convert fast enough. They probably saw only the "chant to the Buddha and make giant golden statues" aspects of Zen whereas they might read the Bible and see the really brilliant stuff Jesus said as opposed to what goes on in churches all over the Western world.

For every brilliant insight into the mind contained in Hinduism, there are hundreds of obscure rules, caste system things, downright sick myths, and beings with more arms than might be considered strictly necessary. Because we Westerners got the full load of pagan civilization passed down to us, whereas we had to discover and filter Eastern civilization, it's a lot easier to focus on the good bits of the latter.

[johncmcleod]

From what I've read the missionaries had a very hard time converting easterners to Christianity. They also could not convert Muslims to Christianity. It worked a little in Spain, but in areas like Indonesia, the Christians couldn't get any converts.

What you said is a good point though.

And I call BS on the countries being worse off due to imperialism. Without the West they'd be even more backwards than they are now.

Right, because if a few wealthy people in these countries have computers, it will make everyone so much happier.

Technology does not equal happiness. Just look at America.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Were they better off before or after imperialism? If before, imperialism was bad, if after, good.

Read what you quote.

[Ari Rahikkala]

We went straight from barbarism to decadence.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Ari Rahikkala
We went straight from barbarism to decadence.

Decadence is barbarism unchecked.

[General Ludd]

For those of you who think that the west has focused on spirituality, consider how the catholic church has been used throughout history as a tool of politics, rather than the other way around. With the seperation between the "Kingdom of Man" and the "Kingdom of God", all the ideals of western religion where thrown out the window in regards to how they actually effect policy and life. The teachings of jesus where ignored while the stringency and control of the church was strengthened. For the vast majority of it's history, Christianity has lacked any sort of spirituality at all. Only now that it's losing it's power is christianity actually starting to mean anything, I think. (Outside of the evangelists and back-water "god fearing christian" types that cling on to the old way, anyways)

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
Right, because if a few wealthy people in these countries have computers, it will make everyone so much happier.

Technology does not equal happiness. Just look at America.

Technology does not equal unhappiness either.

Without us, they certainly wouldn't be better off.

[:) Smiley]

Draw your own conclusions:

[Kuciwalker]

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Technology does not equal unhappiness either.

I thought you just said imperialism = technology =bad.

Without us, they certainly wouldn't be better off.

What are you, a clairvoyant? How can you possibly guess what the east would or wouldn't be "without us"?


BUt if you read what you originally quoted... you would see that I agree that the people's revolts against imperialism where they have established their own government has, in many cases, been a "good thing" (but not always). However, that is not to say that the western influence they have built their new governments around is ideal, and that better systems could not of been built.