Chirac's winning ways

[KrazyHorse]

trying to make Blair look like a Bush stooge

Must take a lot of effort.

[Berzerker]

That's silly, it's not like they intended to collapse. **** like this happens, and BTW I'm sure they wouldn't have gone against Germany if they had thought it wasn't in their interest.

Never said it was intentional. But the US went to war against Germany because France failed to defend itself.
That's called a bail out even if it was our interest...

[Drake Tungsten]

Good God. Give me a break. He's a methodist.

Amen to that. People who call Bush a "fundamentalist" obviously don't know the first damn thing about Methodism...

It's really sad that people still take moral guidance from the Bible when they could have Greek Philosophy.

(hint: the Greeks generally approved of drinking, sex and fun – which matches your lifestyle?)

They also approved of waging warfare in the pursuit of power and glory.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Never said it was intentional. But the US went to war against Germany because France failed to defend itself.
That's called a bail out even if it was our interest...

England and URSS would have collapsed too, were not they protected by the Channel for one and by hundreds of kilometers of land for the other. Geography was an ennemy for the French and a strong ally for the other two. And if you consider that the non-collapsing of the French would have protected the US from entering the war, it means that implicitely you were conscious that their failure would result in your waging war against the Nazis, since nobody can be sure of the outcome of a battle. This means that France was clearly not defending itself only.

And once you entered the war, the final attack against the Reich was made in France, not for the sake of frienship, but for pure military reasons, which was absolutely the right thing to do. Would the coalition armies have landed in the Nederland or Belgium, France would have been freed as well, no less but no more than all other victims of the Third Reich.

[dannubis]

The first encounter between the americans and the whermacht in the kasserine pass turned out to be a disaster for the allies...

And at that point rommel was already on the run and germany was almost bled dry.

France had to take the full fury of the german attack in the first three weeks of the second world war. They recieved a devastating blow and could not recover.

Slightly different circumstances, no? And still your guys were caught with their pants down...

So please, France understimated the germans at the beginning of the second world war and could not recover due to geographical reasons and due to the fact the germany had still its full military capability. The US lost their first real engagement but could recover because it lies on the other side of the world, it had a much larger population and economy and germany was in full retreat at that time.

So explain to me how the US did sooo much better then the french ?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by dannubis
France had to take the full fury of the german attack in the first three weeks of the second world war. They recieved a devastating blow and could not recover.

Yea, it clearly came as big surprise. It's not that months before it other countries were overrun. And by the way, didn't France declare war on Germany, and not the other way around? In this light, getting attacked is not a surprise, but a logical consequence. I don't want to say, that France wouldn't have been attacked without this DoW, but you can't complain to be bitten by a furious dog if you taunted and poked it beforehand.

Slightly different circumstances, no? And still your guys were caught with their pants down...

Well, the French sure as hell were.

[KrazyHorse]

but you can't complain to be bited by a furious dog if you taunted and poked it beforehand

That's an interesting viewpoint. Maybe France and the UK were tired of watching the Nazis overrun Europe?

You can sure as hell complain about getting shot by a criminal if you were trying to stop him from shooting somebody else...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
You can sure as hell complain about getting shot by a criminal if you were trying to stop him from shooting somebody else...

The French didn't actually do anything, they declared war during the first days of the Poland campaign and that was about it. Had they instantly invaded Germany from the other side, which would have been possible, because the German defense was very thin, a lot of things wouldn't have happened.

So by your comparison, who tries to stop a criminal by shouting at him and then standing doing nothing, shouldn't be surprised if he's shot.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

Well, the French sure as hell were.

Of course. But they didn't have the time to correct their mistake. That doesn't mean they didn't put up a fight. During the first three weeks 300 000 french soldiers were dead. No other counrty beside the USSR can say this. And they also almost fell...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by dannubis
Of course. But they didn't have the time to correct their mistake. That doesn't mean they didn't put up a fight. During the first three weeks 300 000 french soldiers were dead. No other counrty beside the USSR can say this. And they also almost fell...

I don't negate the bravery of the French, and I didn't find evidence (other than modern American mock) that anyone else did at this time. They did what they could, and just fell because they overly relied on their Maginot line, which was easily surpassed by other ways (sorry, I know you're Belgian...) and their obsolete military doctrine.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Yea, it clearly came as big surprise. It's not that months before it other countries were overrun. And by the way, didn't France declare war on Germany, and not the other way around? In this light, getting attacked is not a surprise, but a logical consequence. I don't want to say, that France wouldn't have been attacked without this DoW, but you can't complain to be bitten by a furious dog if you taunted and poked it beforehand.

Never heard of MPP?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
Never heard of MPP?

I even heard of ROP rape.

[Spiffor]

I am amazed by Chirac's declarations. Once again, he shows an extreme arrogance. And unlike Bush, he can't even back his arrogance.

Chirac embodies the charicature of the French diplomacy, of a former Great Power bitter to have lost its status, and that still acts as one, in a ridiculous fashion

While I agree with many of Chirac's arguments (the Brits had indeed gained too little from this war, and they have been deeply ****ed by the US), I am baffled that he says so in public, especially with such a trollish tone

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
As much as Chirac is trolling, he does have a point

Exactly WHAT did the British get out of this, besides our gratitude?

Combat experience?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by laurentius


Weird religions include: New Age, Wiccan, Satanism, Mormons, Jehovas Wittnesses, Pentecostal church, The Körts and the Lestadians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lestadians

If you guys were playing the Discordians, you would have won already.